Re: beginners woes

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RowlandCarson

Re: beginners woes

Post by RowlandCarson » Thu May 03, 2007 12:13 am

At 2007-05-02 06:08 +0000 glennm45 wrote:
>I have noticed that you appear to be quite knowledgable about CADintosh
Glenn - thanks for your kind words - maybe it
just looks that way because I talk too much, as
I'm sure there are others much more knowledgeable
than me.

I'm replying to the CADintosh e-mail list as well
as to your own address - it may be of some use to
others to have these exchanges in the public
domain.
>Symbol libraries -- none came with the program
I'm sure there was at least a demo library with
my copy. however, I have downloaded others from
the lemkesoft website - I quote here from the
documentation for it:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The following symbol librarys are available:

Drawing tools
Frames and headers
Oberflächenzeichen
Welding notes

Verbindungsmittel
HEX-Nut
HEX-Skrew
HEX-Bolt

Schlitzschrauben
Zylinderschrauben
Schloßschrauben

Cylindric Pins
Splinte

Row Material
Beams
Winkel
Channel
Z-Stahl
Krane rails
Sonderprofile

Smybols
Hydraulic symbols
Eletric symbols
Procedure symbols

Architecture
Vehicles
Humans
Sign

The librarys are available from http://www.lemkesoft.com

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Incidentally, I observe from the content of some
libraries that Thorsten (or someone close to him)
is a model railway fanatic - there is one library
dedicated to Marklin rail sections.
>I created one of common house plan
>symbols, but now I want to use them at a
>different scale that they were created at and
>when I
>use them in the new drawing they are like minatures-- way to small
I've not come across that problem as I haven't
tried to use symbols in drawings at scales
different to those in which the symbols were
created. Have you tried, after inserting the
symbol into your drawing, using the "change
attributes" item from the "symbol" menu? That
allows you to change the X & Y scaling of the
selected symbol, and to rotate it.

That's OK for one-offs. but long-term, I suspect
you may need to generate libraries in all the
scales you frequently use. I am open to
correction on that. There's probably an easy way
to change the scale of existing symbols, but I
don't know it off the top of my head.

BTW, I think you can submit your libraries for
inclusion in the lemkesoft website. If you think
others might like to avoid re-inventing the
wheel, you could do that as a public service. You
can also upload files to the Yahoo group server;
but for libraries I think the lemkesoft site
would be a better central clearing-house.
>I am having major problems with scale. My
>drawings need to be in feet/inches and need to
>be drawn/dimensioned using fractions. Haven't figured that one out yet.
I suspect that as Thorsten lives in a metric
country, he does not have wide experience with
the imperial system and so some aspects of that
may not be as satisfactory as the metric units.
Although Margaret Thatcher prematurely turned off
the UK's change to the metric system, we are
slowly getting there, and I almost always find it
easier to draw in metric units. I have little
experience of using imperial units in CADintosh,
and would defer to someone more practised to give
definitive advice. However, it appears that all I
have to do to get drawings dimensioned in feet,
inches and fractions of an inch, is as follows:

From "options" menu choose "drawing..." and
select "unit of the complete drawing" to be
"foot", "type" to be "fraction" and "unit of
dialogue edit fields" to be "inch".

From "options" menu choose "dimension..." and
select the "creation" tab. Choose the "type" to
be "fraction" and the precision as required.
>You mention a manual. All I have access to is
>the Introduction and the User Guide - neither
>of which would qualify as a manual. I worked
>through the Introduction successfully, and the
>User Guide is just that -- a guide. Is there
>something more comprehensive out there.
I think Thorsten says in his documentation that
it is _not_ meant to teach people how to use a
CAD program - but I've not seen any resource that
does set out to teach such skills. There's
probably something published (or maybe even
courses you can go on) for AutoCAD users, but
that is probably so specific to the AutoCAD tools
and feature-set that it would be of little use to
a CADintosh user.

I know that while some things are common to many
CAD applications, many of the things I've learnt
in CADintosh do not transfer across to TurboCAD
Mac (& vice versa). The user community of each
application is probably not big enough to justify
a commercially-produced manual going into more
detail than what Thorsten's already does.

Hagen Henke has produced a great manual for
Thorsten's other product, GraphicConverter. I
guess that is the sort of thing you're looking
for, which not only tells you the basic functions
of the program, but how to use them to achieve
many useful things.

For now, probably the best way forward is to ask
for help when you come across a specific problem.
That way, the archives of the list will gradually
develop into something more useful.
>I'm glad to know that there is a support group out there
I suggest that you direct future queries to
; that will reach
the most people who use CADintosh, and will get
archived for future searches.

regards

Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

glennm45
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: beginners woes

Post by glennm45 » Sat May 05, 2007 8:37 pm

Haven't had a chance to try all your suggestions, but I did try to find the Libraries on the
website but had no luck whatsoever. Couldn't find anything that resembled free
downloadable libraries.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my troubles. Right now the scale thing is my
biggest problem. I made a drawing of my house(1/4" to 1' I thought) and then discovered it
was going to take almost 2000 8.5 x 11 to print it out. Not optimal!

Will keep you informed.

glenn

keith_w
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: beginners woes

Post by keith_w » Sat May 05, 2007 10:24 pm

glennm45 wrote:
> Haven't had a chance to try all your suggestions, but I did try to find the Libraries on the
> website but had no luck whatsoever. Couldn't find anything that resembled free
> downloadable libraries.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond to my troubles. Right now the scale thing is my
> biggest problem. I made a drawing of my house(1/4" to 1' I thought) and then discovered it
> was going to take almost 2000 8.5 x 11 to print it out. Not optimal!
>
> Will keep you informed.
>
> glenn
Being an old architectural board designer, I felt a challenge, and ran a
few numbers.
At the 1/4" = 1'0" scale, I figured a 40 foot side of a house would take
up 10" of drawing space!
So, you have something seriously wrong on the design scale.

Square root of 2000 will give you the side of a square piece of paper,
so let's assume you have about 45 x 45 pieces of paper laid in a square
pattern.

That's about 30 feet on the side, in plain paper alone!

So, dig into your scaling efforts. Something amiss there!

Maybe you plugged in 1/4 foot = 1.0 foot, or in other words, 3" = 1'-0"
A good scale for some details but lousy for a plat plan! :-)

Good luck!

keith whaley

Seems that would account for the messed up calculation by the printer.

Jon Guyer
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:01 am

Re: beginners woes

Post by Jon Guyer » Sun May 06, 2007 4:01 pm

On May 5, 2007, at 4:18 PM, keith_w wrote:
> Being an old architectural board designer, I felt a challenge, and
> ran a
> few numbers.
> At the 1/4" = 1'0" scale, I figured a 40 foot side of a house would
> take
> up 10" of drawing space!
> So, you have something seriously wrong on the design scale.
>
> Square root of 2000 will give you the side of a square piece of paper,
> so let's assume you have about 45 x 45 pieces of paper laid in a
> square
> pattern.
>
> That's about 30 feet on the side, in plain paper alone!
>
> So, dig into your scaling efforts. Something amiss there!
>
> Maybe you plugged in 1/4 foot = 1.0 foot, or in other words, 3" =
> 1'-0"
> A good scale for some details but lousy for a plat plan! :-)
Setting any scale in a CAD program is just crazy. When taking pencil
to paper, of course you need to choose a scale, but with CAD, let the
software do the work for you. I draw everything at 1:1 and then
choose a print scale (or lots of different print scales) to capture
the level of detail that I'm interested in. Part of the reason I do
this is because I can never remember for sure (at least until after
my printer has chewed through 2000 pieces of paper!) whether I've got
1/4" = 1' or 1' = 1/4". If I've actually scaled my drawing, I'm stuck
and I have to redo everything. On the other hand, if it's just the
print scale, I can preview before I actually waste all that paper,
and if I've got the scale backwards (and I always do), I can just
change the print scale.

Bill Brown
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: beginners woes

Post by Bill Brown » Sun May 06, 2007 7:04 pm

>
>Setting any scale in a CAD program is just crazy. When taking pencil
>to paper, of course you need to choose a scale, but with CAD, let the
>software do the work for you. I draw everything at 1:1 and then
>choose a print scale (or lots of different print scales) to capture
>the level of detail that I'm interested in. Part of the reason I do
>this is because I can never remember for sure (at least until after
>my printer has chewed through 2000 pieces of paper!) whether I've got
>1/4" = 1' or 1' = 1/4". If I've actually scaled my drawing, I'm stuck
>and I have to redo everything. On the other hand, if it's just the
>print scale, I can preview before I actually waste all that paper,
>and if I've got the scale backwards (and I always do), I can just
>change the print scale.
Ok - that sounds like a valid argument. Now what I haven't managed to
figure out is, "In cadintoshmac, how does one set the scale for printing?"
I've gone 'round and 'round on this but have never managed figure it out,
or get it right more than once in a gross of tries.

I always end up trying to use the value in the printer set-up dialog for
scale, which is a rather crude and inexact way of doing it. Especially
when one is trying to work to a scale like 1:87.1 or 3.5mm = 1' (1.148%),
for instance.

Clearly I'm missing something!
--


--+---+ \/-bill
++---+ |[]]|_^_[]gearedloco2001@yahoo.com
_|____+-+___|____|_Modesto, CA
| o+o +-+ ---= \Amazing Grace - C-250 #302

Jon Guyer
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:01 am

Re: beginners woes

Post by Jon Guyer » Sun May 06, 2007 10:03 pm

On May 6, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Bill Brown wrote:
> Ok - that sounds like a valid argument. Now what I haven't managed to
> figure out is, "In cadintoshmac, how does one set the scale for
> printing?"
> I've gone 'round and 'round on this but have never managed figure
> it out,
> or get it right more than once in a gross of tries.
File > Area > Select Area with (Window|Page)

then

File > Area > Options

glennm45
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: beginners woes

Post by glennm45 » Mon May 07, 2007 2:25 am

> Setting any scale in a CAD program is just crazy. When taking pencil
> to paper, of course you need to choose a scale, but with CAD, let the
> software do the work for you. I draw everything at 1:1 and then
> choose a print scale (or lots of different print scales) to capture
> the level of detail that I'm interested in. Part of the reason I do
> this is because I can never remember for sure (at least until after
> my printer has chewed through 2000 pieces of paper!) whether I've got
> 1/4" = 1' or 1' = 1/4". If I've actually scaled my drawing, I'm stuck
> and I have to redo everything. On the other hand, if it's just the
> print scale, I can preview before I actually waste all that paper,
> and if I've got the scale backwards (and I always do), I can just
> change the print scale.
OK, I understand what you are doing, but how do you get correct dimensions. And the 1:1-
is it 1'=1' or 1" = 1'. I need dimensions that are in feet and inches.

glenn

Jon Guyer
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:01 am

Re: beginners woes

Post by Jon Guyer » Mon May 07, 2007 3:26 am

On May 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, glennm45 wrote:
> OK, I understand what you are doing, but how do you get correct
> dimensions. And the 1:1-
> is it 1'=1' or 1" = 1'. I need dimensions that are in feet and
> inches.
1' = 1'. 1" = 1". 1 km = 1 km.

Simply use the measurements you want.

RowlandCarson

Re: beginners woes

Post by RowlandCarson » Wed May 09, 2007 12:29 am

At 2007-05-07 00:25 +0000 glennm45 wrote:
>how do you get correct dimensions. And the 1:1-
>is it 1'=1' or 1" = 1'. I need dimensions that are in feet and inches
Glenn - I wonder if you tried the suggestion I made in my earlier reply:

It appears that all I have to do to get drawings dimensioned in feet,
inches and fractions of an inch, is as follows:

From "options" menu choose "drawing..." and select "unit of the
complete drawing" to be "foot", "type" to be "fraction" and "unit of
dialogue edit fields" to be "inch".

From "options" menu choose "dimension..." and select the "creation"
tab. Choose the "type" to be "fraction" and the precision as required.

If you've tried this, what result do you get, if not objects in feet
and inches?

Incidentally, the screen with drawing, nnumber, description, and
scale (among many other items) that appears every time you create a
new document in CADinttosh is purely text recorded for information,
and has no influence on the actual scale of the drawing. You can
leave the fields all blank and it doesn't appear to affect the
drawing at all.

regards

Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

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