Re: Scaling &c --- Basic Point

[tkat@tkat.com]

Hello to All,

I've just upgraded to a G4 w/ 10.3.8 O/S. I've been using AuraCAD
[MGMS] since the old Mac II days. Unfortunately, it won't go past O/S
8.5.

So, I've just started w/ CADintosh --- and raised my frustration level
to a danger point.

My main use for a CAD pgm are to design smaller machine parts,
typically in the 6~8" range. Accuracy needs to be in the 3 decimal
range.

Follows are my starting questions --- once I get s'thing down on
"paper" I'm sure I'll have a bunch more.

* How do I change the scale of the dwg screen to real size? So 1"
appears to be about 1".
* How is the zero/zero corner moved to a user defined position.
That's where the mill takes it's reference from to cut the parts.

Once I can get the parts designed, we'll chat about absolute
dimensioning. I'm an ol' "moss back" and prefer "tree-ware" so I've
printed out all 92 pages of the manual. But it sure ain't a tutorial!

Any old hand users out there that can give me a boost start?

Ciao,
Tkat

"Vegetarian"; an old Indian word meaning 'poor hunter'.

[Matthew Goeckner]

On Apr 10, 2005, at 4:47 PM, tkat@tkat.com wrote:

But it sure ain't a tutorial!




I would agree with your statement. I have been able to do little
things but I have partly given up in frustration. There is also a major
lack of time on my part to figure out all of the bits by myself. Just
how do I setup a page with a given scale.....? It is the really simple
stuff like that that I can't find/figure out. If someone can start a
tutorial, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig for testing it. providing
feedback




Matthew Goeckner
Associate Professor
Electrical Engineering
Plasma Science Lab
PO Box 830688 M/S EC33 (2601 N. Floyd for packages)
University of Texas - Dallas Richardson, TX 75083
Ph: 972 883-4293
Fx: 972 883-6839
http://www.utdallas.edu/~goeckner

Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender.

[Chuck Rice]

At 2:47 PM -0700 4/10/05, tkat@tkat.com wrote:

>Hello to All,
>
>I've just upgraded to a G4 w/ 10.3.8 O/S. I've been using AuraCAD
>[MGMS] since the old Mac II days. Unfortunately, it won't go past O/S
>8.5.
>
>So, I've just started w/ CADintosh --- and raised my frustration level
>to a danger point.
>
>My main use for a CAD pgm are to design smaller machine parts,
>typically in the 6~8" range. Accuracy needs to be in the 3 decimal
>range.
>
>Follows are my starting questions --- once I get s'thing down on
>"paper" I'm sure I'll have a bunch more.
>
>* How do I change the scale of the dwg screen to real size? So 1"
>appears to be about 1".

I think you can click on the + and - button that appear above the
up/down scroll bar. The Z sets it back to 100%. At 100% I think that
the size depends on the scale that you set when you created the document
or as you changed it in the options.

>* How is the zero/zero corner moved to a user defined position.
>That's where the mill takes it's reference from to cut the parts.
>
>Once I can get the parts designed, we'll chat about absolute
>dimensioning. I'm an ol' "moss back" and prefer "tree-ware" so I've
>printed out all 92 pages of the manual. But it sure ain't a tutorial!
>

I still have a hard time with Cadintosh too. I think that the
introduction file is a tutorial. Did you go through that
too? If not, select the HELP->OPEN INTRODUCTION menu. If I
remember correctly, it covers zooming and it may tell you how
to set the origin. Still, there are a lot of settings that need
to be set to get started. it is hard to remember where
everything is. -Chuck-

[tkat@tkat.com]

> ....................... If someone can start a
> tutorial, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig for testing it. providing
> feedback
>

HA!! Take a number & get in line. ;^)

All we need now is some 'puter savvy wordsmith to organize the
knowledge. Any volunteers?

Chuck has some good answers that will get me started out --- the +/-/Z
thing. The Help docs. are also sign pointers.

I'm not gunna let this thing beat me up as it's a tool I NEED!

I did go out and buy BobCAD 'cause they guaranteed it'd work on a Mac.
Not So! It will IF you put on Virtual Windows --- $270 @ the Apple
Store. Scheech, I went & bot a PC that'll be a stand alone system for
less.

It's just as tuff to get started w/ but they have tech support. The
only reason I'm keeping it is that I worked them for 1/2 price and they
threw in an engraving program. [It's also CAM --- provided they come
up w/ a post processor for my machine.]



Ciao,
Tkat

"The older I get, the faster I was."

[tkat@tkat.com]

"Ah-Ha!", said the blind man as he picked up his hammer & saw.

> ..........click on the + and - button that appear above the
> up/down scroll bar. The Z sets it back to 100%. At 100% I think that
> the size depends on the scale that you set when you created the
> document
> or as you changed it in the options.

You're right! That's a start.

>
> .........introduction file is a tutorial...............select the
> HELP->OPEN INTRODUCTION menu. ............Still, there are a lot of
> settings that need to be set to get started. It is hard to remember
> where
> everything is.

Hear, hear!

No, I didn't read it in depth. It seemed to be archie orientated. But
it does seem to have a bunch of help stuff. I'll go back & print it
all out too. As my clients allow me the time. At the moment they have
found where I was hiding and put me to work. [grmblgrmbl]

==================================

On to other matters.

Is there a FAQ section in this group? If no, would s'one like to start
one?

A basic tutorial w/ mechanical examples sure would be a great help.
The basic s/w seem quite comprehensive, particularly for shareware.
Lemke did a good job w/ it. Unfortunately, he reminds me of an old
thermo dynamics college Prof. who couldn't understand that his students
weren't as intuitively brilliant as he was. That class was a Bitch!

A'way, for all of you out there who have fought thru the beginning
phases of the pgm, if you would take the time to set down your hard won
knowledge, I for one, would greatly appreciate it and read them w/ full
concentration.
[How's that for a complex, convoluted sentence? Never did do well in
English.]

[Matthew Goeckner]

All we need now is some 'puter savvy wordsmith to organize the
knowledge.  Any volunteers?

Note my livelihood. I will be slow as I am busy but......

Question

What are the major pieces that a CAD program has to do?


Matthew Goeckner
Associate Professor
Electrical Engineering
Plasma Science Lab
PO Box 830688 M/S EC33 (2601 N. Floyd for packages)
University of Texas - Dallas Richardson, TX 75083
Ph: 972 883-4293
Fx: 972 883-6839
http://www.utdallas.edu/~goeckner

Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender.

On Apr 11, 2005, at 11:00 AM, tkat@tkat.com wrote:

[tkat@tkat.com]

>
>
> Question
>
> What are the major pieces that a CAD program has to do?
>
>

IMHO, the primary purpose of a CAD system is to communicate graphical
information. The 2 sides of the coin are input & output.

As designers, we are most concerned w/ the input side ---- as long as
the person reading the dwg can still interpret it in a correct,
meaningful, and efficient manner.

From my perspective as a mechanical piece-part designer my most
desirous wants are:

1. easy scaling --- so I can fit the part to the screen or output
paper.
2. a way to set my absolute [Ø/Ø corner] where I want, whenever I want.
3. a dimensioning system that will go from this corner in the least
confusing manner --- a single marker @ the non-ØØ end.
plus the incremental ability.

Of course there are many other items, and others will have their own
set(s). But this is a start.

As I bash my way thru this CADware, I'll keep reporting in when new [2
me] stuff is discovered and understood.

[RowlandCarson]

At 2005-04-10 17:58 -0700 Chuck Rice wrote:

>The Z sets it back to 100%.

Chuck - the Z button Zooms the drawing so that it will all fit on the
displayed window - that may not necessarily be 100%.

regards

Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson
| ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

[RowlandCarson]

At 2005-04-10 14:47 -0700 tkat@tkat.com wrote:

>* How do I change the scale of the dwg screen to real size? So 1"
>appears to be about 1".

Tkat - there has been some chat on this forum already about scaling,
and the scaling options in CADintosh are (to me) quite complex; I
have certainly found difficulties in using the imperial (inch)
scaling options, but the metric ones seem to work OK. It may be that
Thorsten, being a European, is less comfortable working with imperial
conventions than with metric, and so his implementation of that
aspect is less fluid than someone who has grown up in the culture of
fractions, inches, feet, yards, rods, poles and perches. I think
Thorsten said he had done some work on the scaling in the latest
beta, but I haven't been to my local wi-fi hotspot yet to download it
- I'm stil on dialup at home.

>* How is the zero/zero corner moved to a user defined position.
>That's where the mill takes it's reference from to cut the parts.

The zero/zero corner, is by definition, at x=0 and y=0.

Not sure that I understand your question, but here are 2 possible answers:

If you want to move it around on the screen (eg so that zero/zero is
in the middle of your viewing area), hold down the shift key then use
the mouse to drag the drawing as required.

If you have drawn the drawing in the "wrong" position with respect to
the zero/zero point, then use the move tool in the toolbox (make sure
the toolbox is showing: cmd-K to toggle). The tool section you want
is the 4th down on the left side, just above the bin tool. The
particular tool you are likely to want for this is the second one in,
move by specifed x & y distances.

>Once I can get the parts designed, we'll chat about absolute
>dimensioning

Sometimes it's easier to draw stuff at full size and scale as
necessary for printing; the resulting .DXF export may suit the
water-jet cutter or whatever you're using to make the bits. Of
course, if the parts are very small, or sized for the Forth Bridge,
that approach is not so good. But for your 6" to 8" parts, that might
be the easiest way.

I wonder if it is useful to have a collection of CADintosh drawings
donated by users to show what can be done or to illustrate questions,
etc? Obviously there are intellectual property issues to be aware of
in releasing complete drawings - but I'm thinking more about smaller
examples of details than a complete architectural drawing for a
corporate headquarters. I haven't checked yet, but as this is a Yahoo
group, there should be a ready-made place for such file sharing. I
have a few small files I'd be happy to share.

regards

Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson
| ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

[tkat@tkat.com]

Attachments :Thnx for yer response. I appreciate your time in answer'n.
=========================================

On Apr 12, 2005, at 2:27 AM, Rowland Carson wrote:
>
>
> Tkat - there has been some chat on this forum already about scaling,
> and the scaling options in CADintosh are (to me) quite complex

That's why I asked if there was a FAQ section. I don't wish to belabor
a dead horse to get up to speed.

> .............but the metric ones seem to work OK. It may be that
> Thorsten, being a European, is less comfortable working with imperial
> conventions than with metric, and so his implementation of that
> aspect is less fluid than someone who has grown up in the culture of
> fractions, inches, feet, yards, rods, poles and perches.

And don't forget furlongs & chains. Unfortunately, our machine tools
here are scaled in 0.001". My take so far is that he's a macro guy
where a meter is his basic unit. I work in 1/1000"'s. +/- .005" is my
general tolerance.

> The zero/zero corner, is by definition, at x=0 and y=0.
>
> Not sure that I understand your question, but here are 2 possible
> answers:

What I meant by this is that my mill and programing like to take one
corner of the part and do all cutting/computing from there; the Ø/Ø
corner.

On the dwg each view has its own ØØ ref corner. Then the dim's for
that view are taken from that corner. Typically, I'll have 3 views on
a sheet; plan, elevation, & end. [front, top, side]. So I'm look'n
for how to spot that origin where it is convenient for that view & then
move it to another spot for another view.

I'll try yer suggestions & see if they do what I need.

> ....... Sometimes it's easier to draw stuff at full size and scale as
> necessary for printing; the resulting .DXF export may suit the
> water-jet cutter or whatever you're using to make the bits.

Most of my stuff is drawn full scale & printed out. I have a garden
variety 3 axis CNC mill that uses conversational language that I
program @ the machine.

> I wonder if it is useful to have a collection of CADintosh drawings
> donated by users to show what can be done or to illustrate questions,
> etc? Obviously there are intellectual property issues to be aware of
> in releasing complete drawings - but I'm thinking more about smaller
> examples of details than a complete architectural drawing for a
> corporate headquarters. I haven't checked yet, but as this is a Yahoo
> group, there should be a ready-made place for such file sharing. I
> have a few small files I'd be happy to share.
>

I'm all for that. Mechanical stuff is too easy to reverse engineer to
worry about be'n copied. And I'd sure like to "go to school" on
other's experiences. There's enuf weird stuff left to invent/learn to
bother redo'n plowed ground.

I've scanned a typical dwg into this post to show what I mess w/. Hope
it comes thru.

This is a clamp for a Yamaha XS1100 fork brace --- circa '79~'81. Over
the last 7 yrs. I've made around 1300 sets of 'em.

Ciao,
Tkat

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie', until you find a big
stick."