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Unbelievably, prop restoration is a highly controversial topic. Amongst collectors and enthusiasts, the debate has raged since the first awareness of a concept of value beyond function. While what is appropriate remains unresolved, props live and die by subjective rules and restorations.There are several schools of thought on restoration. The philosophies range drastically, and the effect on value and lifespan of your prop is paramount. Knowing your personality, knowing your financial situation and your goals, understanding the fundamentals of aging and altered props is key to success when making your restoration decision.The jury is still out on the schools of Philosophy - NOBODY is the end all of authority. The owner of a piece chooses its destiny, and integrates his personality into its history through the entire tenure of their possession. This integration may increase or decrease its value in a subjective world of appraisals. Remember, the decisions are personal, and should never be second-guessed. Make educated choices, and enjoy your movie-prop.Schools of Thought:The first school; do nothing, accept the piece as it appears no matter how poor the condition. Let it rot and disintegrate so no man can ever study or enjoy the piece or spirit of the piece for generations to come. Own it to death.The second school; with skillful restoration return your prop to a state of screen used likeness and have practical display use within your home, maintaining a good percentage of its appraised value. Props of fair to poor value are in most cases savable. - Maybe (No Latex) With proper conservation, these pieces maintain a good portion of their pseudo value, and are no longer an eyesore or a foolish sad machine.The third school; strip it bare, sand it down, and fix it any way you can to make it look new and functional again.
Here's the deal on the restoration - from the guy who restored it - ME!!! I got a call from Paul Allen's people. They were very upset that they paid nearly https00,000. for a prop they felt they could not display as it was in such horrible condition. They asked me my philosophy on how far to take the restoration. Now remember, these people are museum curators with tons of experience and knowledge of antiques, art and movie props. We were all very aware of the three schools of thought, and what it would mean to the prop. It was decided that he should get a ground up restoration and look as good or better than he did in the series. This was Paul's call and he is very happy with it and extremely happy with the restoration. He wanted to share B9 with the world, and he felt if it looked like crap, future generations would be disillusioned and disappointed seeing their cybernetic hero, looking like decaying crap. Anyone who saw the stunt robot in person would agree. Whereas we are all fanatics about B9, the general public remembers him only one way, if at all, and that is looking good, all lit up, talking, etc...For the record, a lot of props were completely restored for that museum, like the My Favorite Martian ship, the Blade Runner car, on and on.Now here's more of the deal. People seem to think that stunt was the most original robot, which survived when the series was cancelled. Well, yes and no. Technically speaking, only the main body parts survived, which included the bubble, cardboard brain, wooden bubble lifter, wooden radar and wooden ear posts, collar, torso, decaying foam donut, wooden waist plate, fiberglass bellow, fiberglass knees, wooden knees plates, wood and cardboard pedestals and cardboard wheels and decaying foam treads.All authentic pieces made by Fox and great for reference. (Throw away your blue prints)Now, when Greg Jein bought the robot and J2 at a Fox auction, it was a total wreck as seen in those pictures. He did the first restoration, just to make it presentable. So, right off, it was no longer "What we saw in the show". It was changed to look more presentable. IT WAS TOUCHED!!! And not with authentic Fox 60's era parts, but with 80's prop man best guess pieces. So we are well on the road to not being so f'n original already. Plus, Greg toured the thing around the world to Japan and who knows where else, where it further got changed and damaged. It was actually missing in shipping for over a year and turned up at a Hollywood curio shop where I tried to buy it, not knowing it was Greg's. I offered the guy 7K for it, but they thought they would rent it out- but never did. Greg found out where it was sued to get it back, and he did. At this time, he did more work to it, molded it and gave a lot of his prop making buddies these molds to make their own B9. The who's who in effects were making B9's like biscuits. Not to resell, just for themselves.Anyway, Greg put in heart box detail from hell, covered over the cardboard brain with tape painted it silver and put on alien markings. And painted the body and bellows and finally left it alone. -- Until the accident. A heavy light stand fell over and smashed the front of the torso, taking out the mouth and some of the side. Forever changing its profile. It was repaired poorly and went on its way again until it went up for auction and you know the rest.So, tell me, fellow B9'ers, what is so terrible in replacing the lost, stolen, missing and unauthentic detail with what Bob Kinoshita intended for Blinky to have? As a matter of fact, at his 90th birthday bash with the original Robby in attendance, and where I met Fred Hodges (he's so smart and young looking, isn't he?) and other intrepid builders from the club, I told Kinoshita that I restored the stunt robot and he was elated. He never thought that the stunt should have been so poorly made and was disappointed what has happened to it. He thanked me and thought I did a great job. He also told me it was just a job and it was just a prop - AMEN!!! So if B9's creator approves... it should be good enough for you salty dogs. It was for me.Let me tell you a bit about the stunt robot when I got it. It could barely stand on its own. It was listing to one side. Taking on water . The fiberglass gel-coat was thin as tissue paper and cracking everywhere. All the foam disintegrated, it was a mass of wires and shit. I shot 20 billion 6 MB Tiffs of it and then tore him apart with my bare hands. Which wasn't hard. He flaked about like a buttery croissant. I sanded and bondo'd that thing like a Ferrari for two months, replaced entire sections of the torso, which were impossible to repair. Greg had poured large amounts of resin to hold the thing together. This is what is original on the piece today:
Collar
Radar
Bubble lifter
Torso
Wrists
Torso Vents
Bellows
Connecting plate
Knees
Pedestals
HingesThe same surviving pieces as it left Fox. Only now, they have a new lease on life. I just put on more authentic pieces, as opposed to what the previous owner put on and gave him a new paint job. Well, more than just a paint job. I also motorized the spinners, put in an articulated brain, made him talk and light up. He is really a joy to see. And if some of you can get past his past and onto his future for generations to come, you will see that what I did was for the best. They were going to store him and never display him until I told them what I could do for it. This way at least we can all see and enjoy him. Plus, I made him as accurate as I possibly could. Way more authentic than the Hero restoration.I could have made him into a pleasure vehicle. I still might...JUST YOU WAIT!!! From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:B9Builders@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 6:11 PM
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Holy Crap!! Where do I start!
First of all, MIke Joyce DOES NOT own the original Hero Robot. I am also certain MIke does NOT know who does. Kevin Burns obviously does because he is the one that sold it, but the deal must have included confidentiality which he is abiding by. That sucks, but it is the reality. I can't say that anyone else really knows. I think it is highly unlikely that Paul Allen owns the Hero. Its very disappointing to me that someone wants to own it and hoard it to themselves. Why not have it properly restored and show it of??
Next... Mike Joyce NEVER had access to the original Hero robot. Back in 2005 he got access to a treasure trove of original molds jigs and spare parts, but never the actual hero. I know, I was there along with Frederick Hodges. Mike got to take many things back with him to South Dakota to use as reference for his Replicas, including torso molds. We saw the original stone molds for the legs, arms, and torso, but never touched them or measured them. we simply didn't have enough time. But there wasn't a big need either... we had the arm master and the torso molds from an epoxy resin plug cast from the stone molds. The stone molds are deteriorating so Kevin would not let those be used by anyone. Several years earlier Kevin had two epoxy resin plugs made from the torso stone molds which were the basis of Mike's replica torso's and now the v2 torso.
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/gallery/LATrip_2005/TripPhotos.html
Will Huff's incredible legs are absolutely not made from the original stone molds (but I am guessing he will be smiling knowing that some people think he is). Will researched and made his own molds and spent a lot of time on that. I thinks there was a lot of trial and error back at the beginning during his development. There are lots of references out there to the original legs. The stunt robot legs were fiberglass casting, likely right from the original stone molds, so those dimensions are pretty well known.
I don't believe Mike ever kept to himself accurate dimensions he discovered during his Replica research. He choose not to sell the v2 torso to the club for a variety of reasons. First and foremost is the slightly different dimensions. He knew that would open up a huge can of worms with the club and he just couldn't deal with that and develop and sell his Replica's at the same time. As I said before, Mike is a lot smarter than me!
I hope that clears up a few misconceptions...
Cheers!
Craig
At 08:15 PM 1/25/2016, you wrote:
[img]cid:~WRD000.jpg[/img]This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
OK Well thanks for setting me straight. The gal I spoke to at the museum checked her list of active displays for the info and the Robot wasn't listed so it isn't on display. When I checked the website I couldn't find it either and in the past it was listed. My old laptop died last year so I don't have access to the pictures I took of the Robot and the plaque that was with it.
Also, I contacted CraigR and he should be adding what he know on this topic here shortly.
Charlie
RoboCon
The Place Where Robots Meet
----- Original Message -----
From: "ponyboy8844 ponyboy8844@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
To: "Robot Builders"
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 6:02:22 PM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Paul for sure bought the stunt. Had it restored by Fred Barton and had it on display at the Sci-fi museum since he owns that too. I don't think he bought the hero or it would have been on display there also. I wonder why the stunt is no longer on display though? The receptionist probably just didn't know. -Roy
-------- Original message --------
From: "Charlie's BatCave batcave@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
Date: 01/25/2016 4:45 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: "Group, B9"
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
I may be wrong but I am thinking Paul Allen bought the Hero from Kevin in 1998 or 1999. I think that when the Dunny was restored it was sold or donated to the Sci-Fi Museum I just called and spoke to the Admin Office and she didn't think that Robot was owned by Paul Allen but since it is currently NOT on display she couldn't tell me for certain.
Anyway that's how I remember it.
Mike Joyce needs to chime in here.
Mike??
Charlie
RoboCon
The Place Where Robots Meet
----- Original Message -----
From: "ponyboy8844 ponyboy8844@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
To: "Robot Builders"
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:21:21 PM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Hi Charlie! I thought Paul Allen only owned the stunt robot that now resides in the Sci-fi museum in Seattle. Does he own the hero also? -Roy
-------- Original message --------
From: "Charlie's BatCave batcave@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
Date: 01/25/2016 4:08 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: "Group, B9"
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Well that sucks....let's see if I can remember....
MikeJ does NOT own the hero Robot, never did. When it was for sale, Michael Jackson was going to purchase it but when he found out how bad it was he backed out. Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft Inc now owns it.
The MikeJ torso or TimK/MikeJ, torso is reverse engineered.
The Torso that was used in the B9 Creations Replicas by MikeJ are made from the original molds provided to B9 Ceations by Kevin Burns.
The torso for the B9 Creation. is now referred to "The V-2 Torso" that you can purchase from Craig R.
All the rubber parts, legs, knees, arms and bubble lifter boot for the B9 Creations Replica were made by Will Huff and are the same parts you can buy today. Same stuff.
I think that about covers it....
Charlie
RoboCon
The Place Where Robots Meet
----- Original Message -----
From: "sandy rivera sandrockriver996@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 3:24:55 PM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Charlie, Were you going to say something? Your message didn't come through.
From: "Charlie's BatCave batcave@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
To: "Group, B9"
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Charlie
RoboCon
The Place Where Robots Meet
www.robocondenver.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ponyboy8844 ponyboy8844@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
To: "Robot Builders"
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 3:10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
That's what I've suspected. I know Mike's replicas used pulls from the original stone molds for the torso that Kevin Burns owned. I think the legs as well from the original molds which thankfully still exist. Those replicas were really excellent. -Roy
-------- Original message --------
From: "sandy rivera sandrockriver996@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
Date: 01/25/2016 2:03 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Isn't that where some parts are originating from, like the MikeJ-v2 Torso ???
From: "ponyboy8844 ponyboy8844@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
To: Robot Builders
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
So I'll take the silence as a "yes". Although I asked Mike a few years ago at one of the Robocons if he owned the hero and he said no. Maybe he just didn't want to say. So I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything but why all the secrecy? I mean if one of us in the club owns the hero, isn't that a good thing? At least he's owned by someone who appreciates it and will take care of it. If I owned him, I'd be proud of it. Share photos and info to better provide info to the club and people who equally appreciate it. Just sayin'! -Roy
-------- Original message --------
From: "ponyboy8844 ponyboy8844@comcast.net [B9Builders]"
Date: 01/24/2016 10:22 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Robot Builders
Subject: RE: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
Are you saying Mike owns the hero?
-------- Original message --------
From: "quadrant-6@nyc.rr.com [B9Builders]"
Date: 01/24/2016 9:24 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B9Builders] Re: Original Hero and Long Distance Robot Side by Side
This photo is becoming even more of a mystery. Some great evidence has been added here. I always thought the hero legs were useless after the MI retro-fit, and that s probably because they did appear hardened and looked different, shiny, to me but that fact that you, Marc, saw the hero at the Boston reunion and saw the white paint is proof they were used for a time. The legs in this photo to me look like they did on the show as they never looked that way again. It was the specific way they looked when Bob was in it. There s that first bellow right where the legs spit into two different legs, right below the crotch if you will on the right leg. There s that first bellow there that always droops. It looks like that on every occasion of the show but never after, never that severe. But I do believe the guys who noticed the Greg Jein altercations on the stunt so I now have to imagine that it s not from the show but is indeed our hero and his stunt double, it s just a question of when. Maybe I ll send Flint an email, he must know. Anyway, you know when these robots were acquired there are some molds that go along with them and duplicate parts were made.
Let s also not forget that the robot did have a sort of career after LIS and before Mystery Island where he would make public appearances and I m sure parts here and there were broken and was in need of replacing with whatever. I remember seeing a photo of the hero on a Jerry Lewis telethon maybe in 1970 and he had an acrylic cake box for a bubble, you know the one more like the Mystery Island flat on the top and bottom kind.
I ve tracked these robots since the 80 s when I reached out to Flint after having discovered LISFAN, I m sure a lot of us did, following the robot s journey after he was unearthed by Kevin. I love researching him and following the trail and getting that photographic evidence. However, there are tons of stuff we ll never know, mostly during the show s run. Case in point, I don t know how many of you remember that there was an original radar on eBay, not screen used but pulled from the mold during the production of the show. I m sure there were many back-up parts during the production of a show where time is money. Anyway, I won that radar and the interesting thing about it is that it had, in resign, the bubble lifter boot so that was part of the radar mold. Interesting to be sure and proof that there s so much we won t know.
As far as after the discovery of both robots in storage, that history we should and can know. I agree with Marc 100% that this should all be documented on the web site and for the most part I think it was to some degree. Posts have been put up and removed over time but I haven t been there in a long time so I don t know what s up now. Wasn t Dan Monroe s brilliant epitaph to the stunt robot (1967-2004) up on the site. I was disappointed that there wasn't a Robot featurette like the Robby one on the 50th Forbidden Planet DVD on the new LIS set.
As far as who owns these robots, it s no secret that the stunt version is in Paul Allen s Sci FI museum or what s left of him. As far as the hero, I think it s been a loosely guarded secret. I know that Mike J was given access and was privy to the original robot when he started his licensed version venture and acquired a ton of first hand, useful information from the original that he wasn t very eager to share with the group. I mean if his replicas were gonna sell they had to be the best, right? Anyway, if that happened, and it did, that means Kevin knows who owns the hero and why wouldn t he, he owned it. I m sure many of the senior members know where the hero is too, I do. I find it amusing as to the secrecy, I mean, if you followed these robot s history, you d know, right? LOL
Garry
Hey Guys,
MikeJ does NOT own the original Hero B9. He was allowed to use original molds and other items owned by Kevin Burns to use in making the B9 Creations Replica. The rubber, legs, arms and bubble boot is made by Will Huff. The same product he is selling to the builders today. The original Hero Robot is owned by Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft Inc. The "Dummy" Robot was restored and is in th Sci-Fi Museum in Seattle.
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