Wilsons Sandbox

 

The difference between 1/4 inch and 5/16 inch is only 1/16 of an inch.

I'm not sure most people could tell the difference of only 1/16 of an inch from 3 feet away.

Jeff



From: "Gregorio Padin padingre@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
To: "B9Builders@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

 
Good morning!

It is Gregorio (the other Greg J) and thank you for the information! I am getting my gear to see how well I can make the collar for the V2 Torso and if all works well upon approval, do them for the club as well.

So far the quantity of ribs would be 96 and square for my first trial. If it ends to be x 5/16 in the future then guess we will change accordingly.

Thanks again!!!


From: "'Chris Pappas' b9@chrispappas.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

 
I m pretty sure that this information is going to be met with some
resistance. For decades it has been accepted that the Robot s collar had
108 ribs. I don t know what the original source of that information is, but
it s not true.

After spending a lot of time researching the robot s collar, I have
discovered that there were 96 ribs.

When I was doing research for the Moebius Robot kit, I knew there were less
than 100.  The best information I had at the time indicated 98 ribs, which
is what the kit should have (I haven t counted!)

A couple of weeks ago at Chiller I had a conversation with Craig Reinbrecht
and found that the current club info still had the collar at 108 ribs.  I
think he ll tell you that I blew his mind when I told him that I was sure
that there 98 ribs on the collar and I had proof. Little did I know that I
was soon to revise that number further.

Craig told me that there was a new spec being worked on for the v2 collar to
go with the v2 torso and that if the collar was not 108 ribs, now would be a
really good time to update the specs.

I collected together the absolute best evidence that I had available and
started scrutinizing.  It took about a week, but I was able to conclusively
prove that the primary Robot suit had 96 ribs on the collar, at least for
seasons one and two.

There is other evidence suggesting that the stunt robot collar had 97 ribs
and that the primary may have also had 97 ribs in the end.  This evidence is
not clear cut though.  It s not known if the hero and stunt collars were
switched during or after the show, or whether there was significant damage
to either collar and/or whether repair added an extra rib.  It s also
possible that one or both collars were replicated and replaced sometime
after the show wrapped while the suits were out of the hands of the studio.

But none of that matters.  Again, I can tell you for sure that the primary
collar had 96 ribs during filming.  Incidentally, this is also what is
indicated on the studio blueprints.

There is some debate about what size acrylic material was used in the collar
construction.  The blueprints call for 1/4" square rod, however, this is not
what I m seeing in clear publicity photos.  It could be 5/16 square rod, or
it could be 1/4 acrylic sheet cut into strips with widths somewhere between
1/4 and 5/16 and then formed.  I m still searching for conclusive proof of
the collar material.

So that s the latest info...  Go forth and create 96 rib collars!

I don t have anything prepared to publish, but may in the near future.  If
anyone would like to debate, please feel free to post your position and
anything you believe supports other than 96 ribs.  The only evidence that
should be presented are screen caps or vintage photos from the 1960s of the
primary suit.

Chris

On Nov 9, 2015, at 21:20, 'Chris Pappas' b9@chrispappas.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Thanks, Craig!  I ve spent some time with my best vintage photos of the hero collar and here s my assessment of the material width:  The ribs in the collar appear to be .265 wide at the top where there is little, if any distortion from forming.  At the points, they appear to be .310 wide.  I ve taken into consideration the estimated distance of the camera from the collar as well as the differing distance of the known dimension to the measured sections of the ribs.  At this point, I believe that the original stock was either a heavy 1/4 or were .265 strips cut from 1/4 sheet stock, so Craig and I agree here.  Part of the key to getting the collar to look right will be how the plastic distorts at the sharpest point of the bend (which isn t all that sharp on the outside).  There are three components that factor in; the temperature of the acrylic when bending, the shape of the two-piece jig and the pressure applied.  Most of the distortion will happen naturally as the material thins at the outside point and bunches at the inside point.  I can t wait to see the new collars produced from these revelations!   Chris    From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com [B9Builders@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 6:03 PM
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!  

So here is my 2 cents on this... and it differs a little from Chris's, as he knows well since we talked at length about this all last week.

First off, let me say I absolutely agree with the 96 ribs. It did come as a bit of a shocker when he first laid that on me at Chiller (too bad you didn't arrange to film it Chris, lol!), but I can be easily convinced if I see the proof, and Chris had the proof... I also did some of my own verification of this, and can only agree. My hats off to Chris Pappas for noticing something that hundreds of other B9 Builders missed for years!

I also do agree that the rib stock could have been slightly "fatter" than 1/4", but certainly not near as wide as 5/16" (.3125"). I did some careful scaling of extremely hi-res publicity photos and I do not believe the evidence or mathematics support .3125" wide ribs, but I do see that perhaps the ribs were a "fat" 1/4" (maybe as much as .270"), far less than .3125" (5/16").

I do agree, and feel it may be likely that the rib stock was cut out of 1/4" cast acrylic sheet, then heat formed, making the original collar ribs perhaps a more truer 1/4" than the extruded acrylic rod we use today, or maybe they simply cut the stock a tiny bit wider.

Another fact that should be considered here... The FOX blueprints call for "1/4" square plastic grill", but of course we know they did vary from the prints in many ways. 

I think there will continue to be some debate on the thickness of the original Hero collar ribs, but I also think anyone planning to build a collar or producing collars for the club should still be considering 1/4" square rod. Collars made with acrylic sheet, cut into .27" wide strips (or whatever), then sides polished, and heat formed would be exorbitantly expensive to produce, and the difference very hard for most people to see.

With that said, I believe we should seek out and document such details whenever we can, then decide to alter slightly from them for practical reasons. 

Its been a long time since we've had a healthy debate on part details! Love it! 

Now back to the Batcave to rework the v2 Collar drawing to show 96 Ribs!

Craig



At 10:54 AM 11/9/2015, you wrote:

  

The difference between 1/4 inch and 5/16 inch is only 1/16 of an inch.

I'm not sure most people could tell the difference of only 1/16 of an inch from 3 feet away.

Jeff



From: "Gregorio Padin padingre@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
To: "B9Builders@yahoogroups.com"  
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

  
Good morning!

It is Gregorio (the other Greg J) and thank you for the information! I am getting my gear to see how well I can make the collar for the V2 Torso and if all works well upon approval, do them for the club as well. 

So far the quantity of ribs would be 96 and square for my first trial. If it ends to be x 5/16 in the future then guess we will change accordingly.

Thanks again!!!


From: "'Chris Pappas' b9@chrispappas.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

  
I m pretty sure that this information is going to be met with some
resistance. For decades it has been accepted that the Robot s collar had
108 ribs. I don t know what the original source of that information is, but
it s not true.

After spending a lot of time researching the robot s collar, I have
discovered that there were 96 ribs.

When I was doing research for the Moebius Robot kit, I knew there were less
than 100.  The best information I had at the time indicated 98 ribs, which
is what the kit should have (I haven t counted!)

A couple of weeks ago at Chiller I had a conversation with Craig Reinbrecht
and found that the current club info still had the collar at 108 ribs.  I
think he ll tell you that I blew his mind when I told him that I was sure
that there 98 ribs on the collar and I had proof. Little did I know that I
was soon to revise that number further.

Craig told me that there was a new spec being worked on for the v2 collar to
go with the v2 torso and that if the collar was not 108 ribs, now would be a
really good time to update the specs.

I collected together the absolute best evidence that I had available and
started scrutinizing.  It took about a week, but I was able to conclusively
prove that the primary Robot suit had 96 ribs on the collar, at least for
seasons one and two.

There is other evidence suggesting that the stunt robot collar had 97 ribs
and that the primary may have also had 97 ribs in the end.  This evidence is
not clear cut though.  It s not known if the hero and stunt collars were
switched during or after the show, or whether there was significant damage
to either collar and/or whether repair added an extra rib.  It s also
possible that one or both collars were replicated and replaced sometime
after the show wrapped while the suits were out of the hands of the studio.

But none of that matters.  Again, I can tell you for sure that the primary
collar had 96 ribs during filming.  Incidentally, this is also what is
indicated on the studio blueprints.

There is some debate about what size acrylic material was used in the collar
construction.  The blueprints call for 1/4" square rod, however, this is not
what I m seeing in clear publicity photos.  It could be 5/16 square rod, or
it could be 1/4 acrylic sheet cut into strips with widths somewhere between
1/4 and 5/16 and then formed.  I m still searching for conclusive proof of
the collar material.

So that s the latest info...  Go forth and create 96 rib collars!

I don t have anything prepared to publish, but may in the near future.  If
anyone would like to debate, please feel free to post your position and
anything you believe supports other than 96 ribs.  The only evidence that
should be presented are screen caps or vintage photos from the 1960s of the
primary suit.

Chris

 

The difference between 1/4 inch and 5/16 inch is only 1/16 of an inch.

I'm not sure most people could tell the difference of only 1/16 of an inch from 3 feet away.

Jeff



From: "Gregorio Padin padingre@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
To: "B9Builders@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

 
Good morning!

It is Gregorio (the other Greg J) and thank you for the information! I am getting my gear to see how well I can make the collar for the V2 Torso and if all works well upon approval, do them for the club as well.

So far the quantity of ribs would be 96 and square for my first trial. If it ends to be x 5/16 in the future then guess we will change accordingly.

Thanks again!!!


From: "'Chris Pappas' b9@chrispappas.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: [B9Builders] Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!

 
I m pretty sure that this information is going to be met with some
resistance. For decades it has been accepted that the Robot s collar had
108 ribs. I don t know what the original source of that information is, but
it s not true.

After spending a lot of time researching the robot s collar, I have
discovered that there were 96 ribs.

When I was doing research for the Moebius Robot kit, I knew there were less
than 100.  The best information I had at the time indicated 98 ribs, which
is what the kit should have (I haven t counted!)

A couple of weeks ago at Chiller I had a conversation with Craig Reinbrecht
and found that the current club info still had the collar at 108 ribs.  I
think he ll tell you that I blew his mind when I told him that I was sure
that there 98 ribs on the collar and I had proof. Little did I know that I
was soon to revise that number further.

Craig told me that there was a new spec being worked on for the v2 collar to
go with the v2 torso and that if the collar was not 108 ribs, now would be a
really good time to update the specs.

I collected together the absolute best evidence that I had available and
started scrutinizing.  It took about a week, but I was able to conclusively
prove that the primary Robot suit had 96 ribs on the collar, at least for
seasons one and two.

There is other evidence suggesting that the stunt robot collar had 97 ribs
and that the primary may have also had 97 ribs in the end.  This evidence is
not clear cut though.  It s not known if the hero and stunt collars were
switched during or after the show, or whether there was significant damage
to either collar and/or whether repair added an extra rib.  It s also
possible that one or both collars were replicated and replaced sometime
after the show wrapped while the suits were out of the hands of the studio.

But none of that matters.  Again, I can tell you for sure that the primary
collar had 96 ribs during filming.  Incidentally, this is also what is
indicated on the studio blueprints.

There is some debate about what size acrylic material was used in the collar
construction.  The blueprints call for 1/4" square rod, however, this is not
what I m seeing in clear publicity photos.  It could be 5/16 square rod, or
it could be 1/4 acrylic sheet cut into strips with widths somewhere between
1/4 and 5/16 and then formed.  I m still searching for conclusive proof of
the collar material.

So that s the latest info...  Go forth and create 96 rib collars!

I don t have anything prepared to publish, but may in the near future.  If
anyone would like to debate, please feel free to post your position and
anything you believe supports other than 96 ribs.  The only evidence that
should be presented are screen caps or vintage photos from the 1960s of the
primary suit.

Chris

On Tue, 11/10/15, Marc Chabot Mcfinearts@aol.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: [B9Builders] Re: Forget what you think you know about the Robot's collar!
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2015, 11:02 A

I'm so glad I was standing right there at the
moment when Chris first shared his research with Craig on
the number of ribs in the hero's collar and the forensic
evidence to back it up.



The look on your face Craig was priceless, and I had the
same reaction some time ago when Chris first shared the
evidence with me. Craig had that long moment of processing
what



Chris said, then he began to explain and conclusively back
up his assertions. I've been off list for a couple of
years so most of the new members won't remember me, but
in the early days



of the club I was & still am passionate about the
details of how the original hero robot was constructed and
what the most accurate dimensions (and sources) were for how
things were



constructed. Though I'd had my original press kit
release and clear sharp promotional photos from childhood, I
lacked the modern ability to scale stuff, and still do.
I'm a visual artist,



not an engineer, but I know when something does not look
right, as do Craig & Chris, Mike J. and many other
highly skilled members of the club who brought their
expertise together to



construct the most accurate B9 replicas we could. My own
1st. season robot stalled for a number of reasons, key being
finances and life transitions, but also a lack of
information to pin



certain things down to my satisfaction. I'm on my 3rd
torso for instance, and it gets expensive! All of this said,
I was thrilled to meet Chris several years ago and discover
that he had the



formidable forensic skill set and ambition to advance our
understanding to the next level. In the past certain
proprietary roadblocks have been maintained which prevented
the sharing



of certain information. Frederick Hodges who is no longer
active wanted to write a book & gain access to those who
made Lost in Space. I got to meet Robert Kinoshita ten years
ago,



and I saw what was left of the hero prop in 1990 at the
Boston Cast Reunion. It wasn't accurate exactly as much
had been replaced, but most was still original. By the 25th
Reunion in



1995, the hero was replaced at shows by the replica.
Speaking with Bob May years ago, who was notoriously vague
and evasive with details I shared my desire to interview the
original



Robot Wranglers who assisted in the construction of the Hero
prop. Bob essentially said "You'll never find
them!". Living on the east coast, it turned out to be
true, and now they are gone,



and as far as I personally know, the interviews with them
are limited to the snippets we see on Bob May's Video(s)
about his role as the guy inside the can on the series. I
tried to phone



Greg Jein when I was out in Hollywood, but though someone
gave me his phone number, I was not able to reach him. Fast
forward to today, as a club we have collectively gained the




expertise and opportunities to analyze and understand so
much more than we did back in 1998-9. So when Craig
expresses his excitement regarding Chris's excellent
research details,



I second it! We can once again have conversations about the
details of the original hero prop, always my holy grail. I
too am excited and interested, and though I don't yet
have the bucks



again to fully engage in building on the order I'd like
to, my own 1st. season B9 seems to be once again a
possibility! So Thanks Chris, for your amazing forensic
work to conclusively



determine the correct number of ribs on the hero's
collar, as well as other elusive details, and Craig &
others for working so hard to incorporate this more accurate
info into new parts



available to the club. I look forward to some lively
discussions like in the early days. We need a summertime
East Coast New England Build Off, and I think John's
Chariot should be there!



Marc













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Anyone who has a passing familiarity with Genesis can tell you where the missing ribs went:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cd/f0/fb/cdf0fba17737e0474575a00b1b43ca79.jpg
(2:22, thanks Internet!)

On Nov 11, 2015 8:16 AM, "'Chris Pappas' b9@chrispappas.com [B9Builders]" wrote:

Wow... Thank you, Marc, for that testimony and those very kind words.

More shakeup to come...

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:B9Builders@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:03 PM
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B9Builders] Re: Forget what you think you know about the Robot's
collar!

I'm so glad I was standing right there at the moment when Chris first shared
his research with Craig on the number of ribs in the hero's collar and the
forensic evidence to back it up.

The look on your face Craig was priceless, and I had the same reaction some
time ago when Chris first shared the evidence with me. Craig had that long
moment of processing what

Chris said, then he began to explain and conclusively back up his
assertions. I've been off list for a couple of years so most of the new
members won't remember me, but in the early days

of the club I was & still am passionate about the details of how the
original hero robot was constructed and what the most accurate dimensions
(and sources) were for how things were

constructed. Though I'd had my original press kit release and clear sharp
promotional photos from childhood, I lacked the modern ability to scale
stuff, and still do. I'm a visual artist,

not an engineer, but I know when something does not look right, as do Craig
& Chris, Mike J. and many other highly skilled members of the club who
brought their expertise together to

construct the most accurate B9 replicas we could. My own 1st. season robot
stalled for a number of reasons, key being finances and life transitions,
but also a lack of information to pin

certain things down to my satisfaction. I'm on my 3rd torso for instance,
and it gets expensive! All of this said, I was thrilled to meet Chris
several years ago and discover that he had the

formidable forensic skill set and ambition to advance our understanding to
the next level. In the past certain proprietary roadblocks have been
maintained which prevented the sharing

of certain information. Frederick Hodges who is no longer active wanted to
write a book & gain access to those who made Lost in Space. I got to meet
Robert Kinoshita ten years ago,

and I saw what was left of the hero prop in 1990 at the Boston Cast Reunion.
It wasn't accurate exactly as much had been replaced, but most was still
original. By the 25th Reunion in

1995, the hero was replaced at shows by the replica. Speaking with Bob May
years ago, who was notoriously vague and evasive with details I shared my
desire to interview the original

Robot Wranglers who assisted in the construction of the Hero prop. Bob
essentially said "You'll never find them!". Living on the east coast, it
turned out to be true, and now they are gone,

and as far as I personally know, the interviews with them are limited to the
snippets we see on Bob May's Video(s) about his role as the guy inside the
can on the series. I tried to phone

Greg Jein when I was out in Hollywood, but though someone gave me his phone
number, I was not able to reach him. Fast forward to today, as a club we
have collectively gained the

expertise and opportunities to analyze and understand so much more than we
did back in 1998-9. So when Craig expresses his excitement regarding Chris's
excellent research details,

I second it! We can once again have conversations about the details of the
original hero prop, always my holy grail. I too am excited and interested,
and though I don't yet have the bucks

again to fully engage in building on the order I'd like to, my own 1st.
season B9 seems to be once again a possibility! So Thanks Chris, for your
amazing forensic work to conclusively

determine the correct number of ribs on the hero's collar, as well as other
elusive details, and Craig & others for working so hard to incorporate this
more accurate info into new parts

available to the club. I look forward to some lively discussions like in the
early days. We need a summertime East Coast New England Build Off, and I
think John's Chariot should be there!

Marc

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Posted by: Marc Chabot
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"Let's Build!"

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