On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 11:31 AM, David Schulpius
dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:
Bob, Why can't you have a switch at the end of the movement (let's not call it a limit switch) that cuts main power to the motor? Some people have a very simple setup using just the motor, end point switches and timers. Even with more complex setups that include a h-bridge and micro-controller why not have a panic switch with the motor power running through it that shuts down the motor if you have a runaway situation? A diode can also be added so you can reverse the power polarity, re-energize the motor and back the motor away under power. If all components in the circuit are properly sized what's the problem with this? I'm asking with true interest and no criticism of your statement.
My question and statement may be different than what you're stating and calling a limit switch. I agree that any switch sent signals back to a controller of some type should not be more than the controller requires. Usually 3.3 - 5 volts. Your thoughts?
Dave Schulpius
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 11:43 AM, toblueiis
toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:
Hello,
And just to help clarify, OVER-DESIGN is not similar to OVER-LOADED (LOL). I once was talking with an engineer who believed that the more devices he added to a loop, the higher the resistance, and the less current drawn, so the circuit just got better and better. Strange how this thinking was resulting in power supplies burning up. I told him that he should focus on each device having a rated wattage and adding them together gave a total wattage, which should be compared to the wattage rating of the power supplies, which he was overwhelming. After that, power supplies started lasting much longer.
Two important ratings to view when looking at parts, are the normal operating ratings and the surge ratings. It is never a good idea to constantly run parts at the surge ratings, whether voltage or current. It has such a drastic effect on lifespan. After all, we are looking to design our devices, and be able to move on to the next device. That being said, sometimes devices interact with each other as we didn't expect and we have to make some type of correction. But, that is part of the learning and growing experience. And fortunately there are a good number of good hearted builders out there who are willing to share their talents and experience, and even step into new areas to help fellow builders. It is nice to have such people who care about the struggles of other builders and wish the best for their efforts, even though they may never meet those other people.
thanks,
David M.
-------------------------------
On Sun, 11/1/15, toblueiis
toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Slip Rings
To:
B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015, 10:28 AM
Hello,
One of the best quotes that I ran across, and it may have
been from someone in this group, was OVER-DESIGN IS
UNDER-RATED !
thanks,
David M.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/1/15, David Schulpius
dschulpius@wi.rr.com
[B9Builders] wrote:
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Slip Rings
To: "
Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015, 10:12 AM
"Overheating during
soldering".... Wonder how I knew about that one.
Hehe.
David H is really hitting on an
important point and I need to validate what he's
saying. It's better to find out if there is a root
cause
to the switch failure other than the switch itself.
You don't want to keep this issue alive if
you don't really know the cause.
You don't want
to keep installing new parts or new designs without
really
knowing what the real specs of your power systems are. A
few
real important things to know about designing any
power
circuit other than the voltage (value and type)
is:How much current (amps) any and
all devices or motors will draw
How much current your power
supply is rated to give
How
how much current your conductors and connectors can
handle
How how much current can pass
through other
devices in the circuit (switches, diodes, resistors,
slip rings, exc) If any of these are
current underrated then you have a weak spot in the
chain
and will experience a failure. Hopefully it won't be
catastrophic or deadly.
No, I'm not being
dramatic with that last statement.
We're usually
talking DC voltage with our robots and this voltage is a
lot
safer than AC. However, with DC overload or shorts you
can
still have heat and fires if the circuit is not properly
designed and protected. Also don't underestimate the
importance of proper fusing to protect both the
robot's
parts but your safety.
Let me know if I can help
you with any of this. Good pictures of your setup,
schematic
drawings of what you have built and component types and
specs will help make things easier to find any
problems.
Hope this
helps, Dave
Schulpius
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 9:16
AM, toblueiis
toblueiis@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:
Hello,
That brings up some good issues. If the limit switch is
being used for switching the load (motor), or if it is
being
used just for generating signals. If it is just
signals,
that switch should wear out mechanically before it would
be
damaged by the current load. Just sending a signal
takes
very little power. Dave S. presented some good points
including the possibility of overheating during soldering.
It would be nice to see the exact wiring of the switch,
with
all associated parts.
Some limit switches have pretty high current ratings, and
if
your switch is being damaged by a current issue, excess
current could be pretty rough on the slip rings.
Whether
you go to slip rings on not, it would still be a good
idea
to determine what is being your problem in this failure.
It
could relate to something else you will deal with
further
down the line with another circuit or mechanism, so you
can
take this into consideration in further designing.
Also,
any troubleshooting you will do, helps you be a better
troubleshooter in the future. You learn the mindset or
thinking patterns of being a better troubleshooter, and
it
isn't just limited to your robot.
thanks,
David M.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/1/15, David Schulpius
dschulpius@wi.rr.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:
Subject: Re: [B9Builders] Slip Rings
To: "
Tobor001@aol.com
[B9Builders]"
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2015, 8:49 AM
I was wondering the same thing as
David above. It's odd that the same switch has gone
bad
twice and in such a short time. Usually any type of
switch
is rated for tens of thousands of operations and should
last
for decades. Some factors that would limit the lifetime
would be over current of the rated amperage,
overheating
the
lugs when soldering or abuse (slamming into the switch
too
fast with the moving load). These stitched also can
easily
go out of calibration if not installed and set
properly.
For
example with micro switches; if you install the switch
and
bend the actuator arm so the moving load will trigger
the
switch but the actuator arm has to bend a little to
trigger
the switch, over time the arm will bend so it won't
trigger the switch anymore. I have limit switches
installed
also in both my waist and radar and they hardly ever
get
hit. They're just there to calibrate the end points
in
the control software and for a panic runaway situation.
My
control software (EZ Robot's EZ Builder that's
sending speed and position commands to a Sabertooth
2X32
with a Kangaroo 2x daughterboard) knows where the
endpoints
(limit switches) are and will stop short of them
(called
Soft Limit points) even if I try to command a move past
them.
Maybe we can help? If your willing
I have a few questions; How are you using these
switches?
Are you using them as an end point identifier that
needs
to
be hit every time to get the motion to go the other
way?
What type of switches are you using for your limit
switches?
How much amperage are you pulling through them and how
many
amps are they rated for? Do you have a few pictures of
how
you have them installed?
I'm also curious on your slip
ring expectations. I know little about the types of
slip
rings out there. I at first wanted to use one in my
build
but was in too much of a hurry when I started my build
to
learn about them and take the time to find the right
one.
I
thought the slip ring was just for power transfer
between
two moving parts. How can they be used in place of
limit
switches? Also Mike mentioned there is one that allows
for
signals to pass through. Mike do you have any info or
links
on this you can share?
Have fun, Dave
Schulpius
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at
12:20 AM, Mike Handley
mike_handley@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:
Me too, using it at the base of the CSS.
Commoned several pairs together to transport 24v to
the
torso, leaving the rest for signal lines.
Mike H
On
Nov 1, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Bob Darlington
rdarlington@gmail.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:
Yeah, or at least I'm
planning to. I bought the slip ring that was being
sold
in a group buy through the R2 club. It's
something
like 20 conductors and fairly small.
-Bob
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at
7:01 PM, Daniel Angel
danielscottangel@gmail.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:
Anyone using slip rings on their build?
D.Scott
--
Conquering the world one robot at a time....
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