Re: CF Sound 3 and 4

[toblueiis]

Hello,

In the recent discussion on wiring involving the CF Sound 3 and 4, there was mention of wiring for grounds or negative leads. I was looking at the manual for the two models and they both mention specific wiring for the speaker leads. On page 6 of the CFS3 manual , it notes in red letters, " NOTE: THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS ARE NOT REFERENCED TO GROUND - EACH SPEAKER REQUIRES ITS' OWN PAIR OF WIRES, AND NEITHER WIRE MAY BE CONNECTED TO GROUND."

I realize that there is a valid concern for causing ground loops, which cause their own problems. But, not all negative leads can be connected on all audio devices. I remember, way back when, of the old Craig Powerplay audio equipment, in which tying the negative speaker leads to ground, or together, wiped out more output transistors. We had to learn not to do that with those devices. It appears that some manufacturers isolate the audio output circuits from the rest of the circuits and it tends to damage the output circuitry to ground these output circuits through the speaker wires. Not all devices make this clear if this is a wiring issue, so proceed with caution. It does seem that where I have seen this often used is in circuits where there is a higher audio wattage output.

This also brings up another point. Both speaker leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal. You can't depend on a ground from other circuitry to give the device the proper audio signal it needs. It must have both leads of the speaker output tied to the interface input circuit (through the attenuator, if needed), and this negative lead not being tied to ground. If there are ground issues affecting the operation, sometimes it helps to provide a ground isolation device. They are typically moderately priced and simple to hook up, and often cure a lot of issues.

Hopefully this information will be helpful to those using or planning to use this device. I haven't tried this device before, but from the manual, it looks impressive for what it can do and its' flexibility.

thanks,
David

[Sky Rocket Guy]

Yes.  But, Jeff specifically mentioned that he was only connecting the positive speaker lead from the CF into the tech22.
Only connecting a positive from an isolated output of the CF is what's called floating - because there is no reference to ground, it causes false readings and random fluctuations.
So, how do other people have this configured, if the negative speaker lead of the CF is not connected to the ground of the tech22?


From: "toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 3:23 PM
Subject: [B9Builders] CF Sound 3 and 4

  Hello,

In the recent discussion on wiring involving the CF Sound 3 and 4, there was mention of wiring for grounds or negative leads. I was looking at the manual for the two models and they both mention specific wiring for the speaker leads. On page 6 of the CFS3 manual , it notes in red letters, " NOTE: THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS ARE NOT REFERENCED TO GROUND - EACH SPEAKER REQUIRES ITS' OWN PAIR OF WIRES, AND NEITHER WIRE MAY BE CONNECTED TO GROUND."

I realize that there is a valid concern for causing ground loops, which cause their own problems. But, not all negative leads can be connected on all audio devices. I remember, way back when, of the old Craig Powerplay audio equipment, in which tying the negative speaker leads to ground, or together, wiped out more output transistors. We had to learn not to do that with those devices. It appears that some manufacturers isolate the audio output circuits from the rest of the circuits and it tends to damage the output circuitry to ground these output circuits through the speaker wires. Not all devices make this clear if this is a wiring issue, so proceed with caution. It does seem that where I have seen this often used is in circuits where there is a higher audio wattage output.

This also brings up another point. Both speaker leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal. You can't depend on a ground from other circuitry to give the device the proper audio signal it needs. It must have both leads of the speaker output tied to the interface input circuit (through the attenuator, if needed), and this negative lead not being tied to ground. If there are ground issues affecting the operation, sometimes it helps to provide a ground isolation device. They are typically moderately priced and simple to hook up, and often cure a lot of issues.

Hopefully this information will be helpful to those using or planning to use this device. I haven't tried this device before, but from the manual, it looks impressive for what it can do and its' flexibility.

thanks,
David
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[David Schulpius]

David,
Great info and grounding something that shouldn't be is hazardous. However when you quote "Both speaker leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal" I'm sure they mean full Two Channel output. There is a 3.5 output jack and also a place for two wire output to a speaker set. I have the 3.5 output going to an amp and the trigger wire from the Tech22 wired into the left channel of the two wire speaker port. Works great.
Dave Schulpius

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 2:23 PM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Hello,

In the recent discussion on wiring involving the CF Sound 3 and 4, there was mention of wiring for grounds or negative leads. I was looking at the manual for the two models and they both mention specific wiring for the speaker leads. On page 6 of the CFS3 manual , it notes in red letters, " NOTE: THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS ARE NOT REFERENCED TO GROUND - EACH SPEAKER REQUIRES ITS' OWN PAIR OF WIRES, AND NEITHER WIRE MAY BE CONNECTED TO GROUND."

I realize that there is a valid concern for causing ground loops, which cause their own problems. But, not all negative leads can be connected on all audio devices. I remember, way back when, of the old Craig Powerplay audio equipment, in which tying the negative speaker leads to ground, or together, wiped out more output transistors. We had to learn not to do that with those devices. It appears that some manufacturers isolate the audio output circuits from the rest of the circuits and it tends to damage the output circuitry to ground these output circuits through the speaker wires. Not all devices make this clear if this is a wiring issue, so proceed with caution. It does seem that where I have seen this often used is in circuits where there is a higher audio wattage output.

This also brings up another point. Both speaker leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal. You can't depend on a ground from other circuitry to give the device the proper audio signal it needs. It must have both leads of the speaker output tied to the interface input circuit (through the attenuator, if needed), and this negative lead not being tied to ground. If there are ground issues affecting the operation, sometimes it helps to provide a ground isolation device. They are typically moderately priced and simple to hook up, and often cure a lot of issues.

Hopefully this information will be helpful to those using or planning to use this device. I haven't tried this device before, but from the manual, it looks impressive for what it can do and its' flexibility.

thanks,
David

[toblueiis]

Hello Dave,

thanks for your message. Actually what had the quotes in your email was my personal comments based on what the CFS 3 manual said, and this was what I had written in bold letters in my original email. It had said that each speaker required its own pair of wires. I do realize as you mentioned, the issue of what was "meant" can be different from what was written, sometimes because it wasn't the technician doing the final writing. Sometimes when manuals are written, the wording isn't accurate to what the actual situation is. My thoughts were to try to help note the warning in the manual to help prevent possible damage.

I do appreciate your graciousness in the writing of your email in response to mine.

thanks,
David



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10/25/15, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] CF Sound 3 and 4
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2015, 8:27 PM


David,
Great info and grounding
something that shouldn't be is hazardous. However when
you quote "Both speaker
leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio
output signal" I'm sure they mean full Two
Channel output. There is a 3.5 output jack and also
a place for two wire output to a speaker set. I have the 3.5
output going to an amp and the trigger wire from the Tech22
wired into the left channel of the two wire speaker port.
Works great.
Dave
Schulpius
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at
2:23 PM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

























Hello,



In the recent discussion on wiring involving the CF Sound 3
and 4, there was mention of wiring for grounds or negative
leads. I was looking at the manual for the two models and
they both mention specific wiring for the speaker leads. On
page 6 of the CFS3 manual , it notes in red letters, "
NOTE: THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS ARE NOT REFERENCED TO GROUND -
EACH SPEAKER REQUIRES ITS' OWN PAIR OF WIRES, AND
NEITHER WIRE MAY BE CONNECTED TO GROUND."



I realize that there is a valid concern for causing ground
loops, which cause their own problems. But, not all
negative leads can be connected on all audio devices. I
remember, way back when, of the old Craig Powerplay audio
equipment, in which tying the negative speaker leads to
ground, or together, wiped out more output transistors. We
had to learn not to do that with those devices. It appears
that some manufacturers isolate the audio output circuits
from the rest of the circuits and it tends to damage the
output circuitry to ground these output circuits through the
speaker wires. Not all devices make this clear if this is a
wiring issue, so proceed with caution. It does seem that
where I have seen this often used is in circuits where there
is a higher audio wattage output.



This also brings up another point. Both speaker leads are
mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal.
You can't depend on a ground from other circuitry to
give the device the proper audio signal it needs. It must
have both leads of the speaker output tied to the interface
input circuit (through the attenuator, if needed), and this
negative lead not being tied to ground. If there are ground
issues affecting the operation, sometimes it helps to
provide a ground isolation device. They are typically
moderately priced and simple to hook up, and often cure a
lot of issues.



Hopefully this information will be helpful to those using or
planning to use this device. I haven't tried this
device before, but from the manual, it looks impressive for
what it can do and its' flexibility.



thanks,

David

































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[David Schulpius]

LOL David. Your welcome. I'm not often referred to as "Gracious". Thanks for the honor and trying to keep us and our equipment safe. Can't have enough of that for sure. After all, we are our brother's keeper.
Hope you had a great weekend!Dave Schulpius

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 10:12 PM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Hello Dave,

thanks for your message. Actually what had the quotes in your email was my personal comments based on what the CFS 3 manual said, and this was what I had written in bold letters in my original email. It had said that each speaker required its own pair of wires. I do realize as you mentioned, the issue of what was "meant" can be different from what was written, sometimes because it wasn't the technician doing the final writing. Sometimes when manuals are written, the wording isn't accurate to what the actual situation is. My thoughts were to try to help note the warning in the manual to help prevent possible damage.

I do appreciate your graciousness in the writing of your email in response to mine.

thanks,
David

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/25/15, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] CF Sound 3 and 4
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2015, 8:27 PM


David,
Great info and grounding
something that shouldn't be is hazardous. However when
you quote "Both speaker
leads are mentioned as being needed to get a full audio
output signal" I'm sure they mean full Two
Channel output. There is a 3.5 output jack and also
a place for two wire output to a speaker set. I have the 3.5
output going to an amp and the trigger wire from the Tech22
wired into the left channel of the two wire speaker port.
Works great.
Dave
Schulpius
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at
2:23 PM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

























Hello,



In the recent discussion on wiring involving the CF Sound 3
and 4, there was mention of wiring for grounds or negative
leads. I was looking at the manual for the two models and
they both mention specific wiring for the speaker leads. On
page 6 of the CFS3 manual , it notes in red letters, "
NOTE: THE SPEAKER OUTPUTS ARE NOT REFERENCED TO GROUND -
EACH SPEAKER REQUIRES ITS' OWN PAIR OF WIRES, AND
NEITHER WIRE MAY BE CONNECTED TO GROUND."



I realize that there is a valid concern for causing ground
loops, which cause their own problems. But, not all
negative leads can be connected on all audio devices. I
remember, way back when, of the old Craig Powerplay audio
equipment, in which tying the negative speaker leads to
ground, or together, wiped out more output transistors. We
had to learn not to do that with those devices. It appears
that some manufacturers isolate the audio output circuits
from the rest of the circuits and it tends to damage the
output circuitry to ground these output circuits through the
speaker wires. Not all devices make this clear if this is a
wiring issue, so proceed with caution. It does seem that
where I have seen this often used is in circuits where there
is a higher audio wattage output.



This also brings up another point. Both speaker leads are
mentioned as being needed to get a full audio output signal.
You can't depend on a ground from other circuitry to
give the device the proper audio signal it needs. It must
have both leads of the speaker output tied to the interface
input circuit (through the attenuator, if needed), and this
negative lead not being tied to ground. If there are ground
issues affecting the operation, sometimes it helps to
provide a ground isolation device. They are typically
moderately priced and simple to hook up, and often cure a
lot of issues.



Hopefully this information will be helpful to those using or
planning to use this device. I haven't tried this
device before, but from the manual, it looks impressive for
what it can do and its' flexibility.



thanks,

David

































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