Wilsons Sandbox

It seems that there is still a major misunderstanding on the sizes of
these two parts. This problem is directly driven by the size of the V2
torso.

The V2 Torso is smaller in height and width - which then requires that
the Collar and the Radar Section also be smaller in both height and width.

My collar that I was making will not work with the V2 torso and that
goes right along with the Radar Section - which is why I am now selling
the V2 Radar Section.

Finally, I have been asked again why did I stop making collars - That
is really simple in two parts.

1. The jigs for molding and trimming the ribs would have to be remade -
the old ones would be the wrong size.

2. After 15 years - someone else needs to do it.


I hope these help in understanding.

Later,

Greg

Greg, Which torso is closer to the original. I have your collar and radar but have yet to purchase a torso. Now I need to decide which combo to go with.  Herb

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Greg b9greg@rap.midco.net [B9Builders]"
Date: 09/28/2015 8:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B9Builders] V2 Collar and Radar Section

 
It seems that there is still a major misunderstanding on the sizes of
these two parts. This problem is directly driven by the size of the V2
torso.

The V2 Torso is smaller in height and width - which then requires that
the Collar and the Radar Section also be smaller in both height and width.

My collar that I was making will not work with the V2 torso and that
goes right along with the Radar Section - which is why I am now selling
the V2 Radar Section.

Finally, I have been asked again why did I stop making collars - That
is really simple in two parts.

1. The jigs for molding and trimming the ribs would have to be remade -
the old ones would be the wrong size.

2. After 15 years - someone else needs to do it.

I hope these help in understanding.

Later,

Greg

All of us (as in "me") could use a little education on torsos and collars. Especially torsos: evidently there are three - perhaps four - variants. How does one tell the difference between a Mike J version 1, Mike J version 2, etc.? I know "the v2 is smaller" - but if you don't have one of each to compare, how do you tell?

I don't have the link but there's a torso comparison section on our website. It shows pictures and compares each one. I dont think the new V2 is in that section yet. Craig R. Has all the details on that version. There may be a write up on his vendor page but I may be wrong.

On Sep 28, 2015 2:29 PM, "warpig@cyberpigstudio.com [B9Builders]" wrote:

All of us (as in "me") could use a little education on torsos and collars. Especially torsos: evidently there are three - perhaps four - variants. How does one tell the difference between a Mike J version 1, Mike J version 2, etc.? I know "the v2 is smaller" - but if you don't have one of each to compare, how do you tell?

It's called "Who made that Torso?" The B9 Robot Builders Club The B9 Robot Builders Club Torso Identification Aid   Several versions of torsos have been available in the past. Some have been more accurate than others. View on b9robotbuildersclub... Preview by Yahoo
 

The V1 torso is what used to be called the TimK/MikeJ Torso. It was the staple for years.
The NEW V2 Torso is what was the B9Creations Replica Torso. This torso is what Mike Joyce used for the Replicas and is made from the same mold as the original Hero Robot. This torso is smaller in size and requires the V2 Collar and Radar. Greg is making the V2 Radar but NOT the collar.

Hope this helps...

Charlie
RoboCon
The Place Where Robots Meet

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb hclann@hotmail.com [B9Builders]"
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 1:26:32 PM
Subject: RE: [B9Builders] V2 Collar and Radar Section



Greg,Which torso is closer to the original. I have your collar and radar but have yet to purchase a torso. Now I need to decide which combo to go with. Herb

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Greg b9greg@rap.midco.net [B9Builders]"
Date: 09/28/2015 8:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B9Builders] V2 Collar and Radar Section

It seems that there is still a major misunderstanding on the sizes of
these two parts. This problem is directly driven by the size of the V2
torso.

The V2 Torso is smaller in height and width - which then requires that
the Collar and the Radar Section also be smaller in both height and width.

My collar that I was making will not work with the V2 torso and that
goes right along with the Radar Section - which is why I am now selling
the V2 Radar Section.

Finally, I have been asked again why did I stop making collars - That
is really simple in two parts.

1. The jigs for molding and trimming the ribs would have to be remade -
the old ones would be the wrong size.

2. After 15 years - someone else needs to do it.


I hope these help in understanding.

Later,

Greg

At this time - I am under the understanding that the Mike J/Tim K torso is no longer available. If there is enough interest - maybe someone could do a small run to finish out those people that have the NON V2 collar and radar sections.

Later,

Greg

On 9/28/2015 1:26 PM, Herb hclann@hotmail.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Greg, Which torso is closer to the original. I have your collar and radar but have yet to purchase a torso. Now I need to decide which combo to go with. Herb

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Greg b9greg@rap.midco.net [B9Builders]" B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Date: 09/28/2015 8:27 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [B9Builders] V2 Collar and Radar Section


It seems that there is still a major misunderstanding on the sizes of
these two parts. This problem is directly driven by the size of the V2
torso.

The V2 Torso is smaller in height and width - which then requires that
the Collar and the Radar Section also be smaller in both height and width.

My collar that I was making will not work with the V2 torso and that
goes right along with the Radar Section - which is why I am now selling
the V2 Radar Section.

Finally, I have been asked again why did I stop making collars - That
is really simple in two parts.

1. The jigs for molding and trimming the ribs would have to be remade -
the old ones would be the wrong size.

2. After 15 years - someone else needs to do it.

I hope these help in understanding.

Later,

Greg

Attachments : Hi acropolisuniversity,

First off, what is your name? We are a friendly bunch here and it would be nice if you signed your messages so we can know who you are.

The v2 torso is slightly smaller than the old club standard, and very few could tell the difference seeing them side by side.

Basically, when Mike Joyce signed the license agreement to build and sell full sized replica B9's, he was given unprecedented access to original molds and other source material we could have only dreamed about in the years prior. One thing he was able to get was a mold of the epoxy resin plug that was cast right from the original stone molds. One thing Mike discovered very quickly was that the true torso was slightly smaller than all previous torsos available to that point. It's hard to know exactly why, but all the previous club torso's came from molds of molds of molds and can probably be traced back to common origins.

Mike decided not to offer the torso's to the club, partly because he knew this would open up a big can of worms with some old club parts not fitting anymore. When he ceased production of his Replica's a few years ago, he gave me the opportunity to offer the new "v2" torso to the club. All I can say is Mike is much smarter than me! ....so I went ahead and did offer them to the club, and did open up this can of worms. But I felt these torso's should be offered to the club and we should move towards better accuracy whenever new and better information is available.

Coincidentally, the R2 Builders club is going through the same thing right now... there is now an R2 v2 standard and they are feeling the pain!

Now to the differences and parts to be aware of...  and please understand that except for the parts I mention below... EVERY OTHER CLUB PART WILL FIT THE V2 TORSO.

COLLAR - Most Critical
* The upper "neck ring" on the torso is about 1/2" smaller in diameter than the old club standard torsos. v2 = 16-1/8", old club standard = 16-5/8". This is where the collar mates with the torso, and if the collar does not fit that dimension, you will see it where the two parts meet.
* Here is a rare picture of a v2 torso with a old club standard collar on top (just taken to see the difference)
[img]cid:.0[/img]

* You can barely see it in the picture, but the large collar does overhang the torso neck ring. This is why you really need a collar that is made for the v2 torso dimension.
* Norman Sockwell is planning to sell a Laser cut v2 collar. Fred Barton's collar may fit... check with Fred. There is also an opportunity for someone to make collars and become a club vendor. This can be done with a very small investment, and there is the potential for someone to fund there own robot project by making and supplying a needed part.

DONUT - Next critical
* The trim ring on the top of the donut needs to be exactly the same size as the trim ring on the bottom of the torso, or this will look bad. Again the v2 trim ring is about 1/2" smaller in diameter than the old club standard donuts.
* This is not much of an issue because most people buy the torso and donut as a set and I offer the v2 donut.

RADAR SECTION - Not as critical
* Yes, not as critical, but you probably would want a v2 sized radar. Because where the collar mates with the radrar is not a sharp edge, there is some ley-way here.
* Greg Logue currently sells a laser cut acrylic radar, and Fred's fiberglass radar is also v2 sized.

NEON BACKPLATE - Least critical
* Because the overall dimensions of the v2 are slightly smaller, the old club standard Neon backplates may not fit as well as it could, but it could still be made to work.
* I am working with David Huber on a new v2 Neon backplate which should be available soon.

Now to answer your question... The v2 torso will definitely not look funny with the treadsections and bubbles of old because the dimensions of those parts has been well established and is very accurate. If anything, it should look better, but I doubt very many people could even tell the difference looking at the two side by side. In fact at Robocon 2013, my robot (old club standard torso) was setup close to Mike Joyce's Replica B9 with its v2 sized torso. You really couldn't tell the difference. Where the size differences come into play is where certain parts meet. If they are mis-sized with each other, that is where you will notice something looking funny.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions.

Thanks,

Craig




At 07:28 PM 9/28/2015, you wrote:

 


Indeed. I'd like to know just how much smaller the V2 is in comparison to the others that are no longer available. Wondering if tread sections & bubbles that are currently sold would look odd with the new torso.

Craig, Good info/explanation. You mentioned the old club standard neon backplate might need to be modified to fit the v2 torso. I purchased club standard neon a while back. Do you think the neon need to be different also to fit the v2 torso? Herb Clann

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 29, 2015, at 9:08 PM, Ken Parker acropolisuniversity@gmail.com [B9Builders] wrote:

 







HI, Craig,I'm new to the group; joined last week! My name is Ken Parker. I've posted a couple of times replied to a couple of the posts as well. When I see my own posts, my Yahoo name is there (which is my real name) but for some reason, it didn't appear in the reply about the torso. The name 'acropolisuniversity' is actually part of my e-mail address & I have no idea why it was shown as my I.D. I will sign all posts from now on. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the detailed information about all the robot parts. It's a tremendous help to know exactly which parts apply to different sections of the torso as far as a good fit & aesthetics goes. I plan to order your V2 torso & donut soon. I've been looking at it on your vendor page since finding the group & am impressed with its accuracy & craftsmanship. Again, sorry for appearing to be mysterious; not my intention at all. I'm thrilled to be a member of the B9 Builders & being able to finally have my dream of owning an accurate B9 of my very own. 
Thanks again for taking the time to clarify my question regarding the fit of the collar & tread section as opposed to the torso. 
Regards, Ken Parker B9-0680
On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Craig Reinbrecht craig@bex.net [B9Builders] wrote:















 












Hi acropolisuniversity,

First off, what is your name? We are a friendly bunch here and it would
be nice if you signed your messages so we can know who you are.


The v2 torso is slightly smaller than the old club standard, and very few
could tell the difference seeing them side by side.

Basically, when Mike Joyce signed the license agreement to build and sell
full sized replica B9's, he was given unprecedented access to original
molds and other source material we could have only dreamed about in the
years prior. One thing he was able to get was a mold of the epoxy resin
plug that was cast right from the original stone molds. One thing Mike
discovered very quickly was that the true torso was slightly smaller than
all previous torsos available to that point. It's hard to know exactly
why, but all the previous club torso's came from molds of molds of molds
and can probably be traced back to common origins.

Mike decided not to offer the torso's to the club, partly because he knew
this would open up a big can of worms with some old club parts not
fitting anymore. When he ceased production of his Replica's a few years
ago, he gave me the opportunity to offer the new "v2" torso to
the club. All I can say is Mike is much smarter than me! ....so I went
ahead and did offer them to the club, and did open up this can of worms.
But I felt these torso's should be offered to the club and we should move
towards better accuracy whenever new and better information is
available.

Coincidentally, the R2 Builders club is going through the same thing
right now... there is now an R2 v2 standard and they are feeling the
pain!

Now to the differences and parts to be aware of...  and please
understand that except for the parts I mention below... EVERY OTHER
CLUB PART WILL FIT THE V2 TORSO.

COLLAR - Most Critical
* The upper "neck ring" on the torso is about
1/2" smaller in diameter than the old club standard torsos. v2 =
16-1/8", old club standard = 16-5/8". This is where the collar
mates with the torso, and if the collar does not fit that dimension, you
will see it where the two parts meet.
* Here is a rare picture of a v2 torso with a old club standard collar on
top (just taken to see the difference)


* You can barely see it in the picture, but the large collar does
overhang the torso neck ring. This is why you really need a collar that
is made for the v2 torso dimension.
* Norman Sockwell is planning to sell a Laser cut v2 collar. Fred
Barton's collar may fit... check with Fred. There is also an opportunity
for someone to make collars and become a club vendor. This can be done
with a very small investment, and there is the potential for someone to
fund there own robot project by making and supplying a needed
part.

DONUT - Next critical
* The trim ring on the top of the donut needs to be exactly
the same size as the trim ring on the bottom of the torso, or this will
look bad. Again the v2 trim ring is about 1/2" smaller in diameter
than the old club standard donuts.
* This is not much of an issue because most people buy the torso and
donut as a set and I offer the v2 donut.

RADAR SECTION - Not as critical
* Yes, not as critical, but you probably would want a v2 sized
radar. Because where the collar mates with the radrar is not a sharp
edge, there is some ley-way here.
* Greg Logue currently sells a laser cut acrylic radar, and Fred's
fiberglass radar is also v2 sized.

NEON BACKPLATE - Least critical
* Because the overall dimensions of the v2 are slightly
smaller, the old club standard Neon backplates may not fit as well as it
could, but it could still be made to work.
* I am working with David Huber on a new v2 Neon backplate which should
be available soon.

Now to answer your question... The v2 torso will definitely not look
funny with the treadsections and bubbles of old because the dimensions of
those parts has been well established and is very accurate. If anything,
it should look better, but I doubt very many people could even tell the
difference looking at the two side by side. In fact at Robocon 2013, my
robot (old club standard torso) was setup close to Mike Joyce's Replica
B9 with its v2 sized torso. You really couldn't tell the difference.
Where the size differences come into play is where certain parts meet. If
they are mis-sized with each other, that is where you will notice
something looking funny.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions.

Thanks,

Craig




At 07:28 PM 9/28/2015, you wrote:
 


Indeed. I'd like to know just how much smaller the V2 is in comparison to
the others that are no longer available. Wondering if tread sections
& bubbles that are currently sold would look odd with the new
torso.

Gooooood stuff. Thanks Craig.  The first thought that pops into my head is, where did Mike Joyce source his collars?  You and Greg got to nerd out in his wondrous world of robot delights, do you recall where they came from?  If he made him himself, does a jig exist that was used to bend the acrylic?
Inquiring minds......
Jeff- 

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:27 PM, "Craig Reinbrecht craig@bex.net [B9Builders]" wrote:

 
Hi acropolisuniversity,

First off, what is your name? We are a friendly bunch here and it would be nice if you signed your messages so we can know who you are.

The v2 torso is slightly smaller than the old club standard, and very few could tell the difference seeing them side by side.

Basically, when Mike Joyce signed the license agreement to build and sell full sized replica B9's, he was given unprecedented access to original molds and other source material we could have only dreamed about in the years prior. One thing he was able to get was a mold of the epoxy resin plug that was cast right from the original stone molds. One thing Mike discovered very quickly was that the true torso was slightly smaller than all previous torsos available to that point. It's hard to know exactly why, but all the previous club torso's came from molds of molds of molds and can probably be traced back to common origins.

Mike decided not to offer the torso's to the club, partly because he knew this would open up a big can of worms with some old club parts not fitting anymore. When he ceased production of his Replica's a few years ago, he gave me the opportunity to offer the new "v2" torso to the club. All I can say is Mike is much smarter than me! ....so I went ahead and did offer them to the club, and did open up this can of worms. But I felt these torso's should be offered to the club and we should move towards better accuracy whenever new and better information is available.

Coincidentally, the R2 Builders club is going through the same thing right now... there is now an R2 v2 standard and they are feeling the pain!

Now to the differences and parts to be aware of...  and please understand that except for the parts I mention below... EVERY OTHER CLUB PART WILL FIT THE V2 TORSO.

COLLAR - Most Critical
* The upper "neck ring" on the torso is about 1/2" smaller in diameter than the old club standard torsos. v2 = 16-1/8", old club standard = 16-5/8". This is where the collar mates with the torso, and if the collar does not fit that dimension, you will see it where the two parts meet.
* Here is a rare picture of a v2 torso with a old club standard collar on top (just taken to see the difference)


* You can barely see it in the picture, but the large collar does overhang the torso neck ring. This is why you really need a collar that is made for the v2 torso dimension.
* Norman Sockwell is planning to sell a Laser cut v2 collar. Fred Barton's collar may fit... check with Fred. There is also an opportunity for someone to make collars and become a club vendor. This can be done with a very small investment, and there is the potential for someone to fund there own robot project by making and supplying a needed part.

DONUT - Next critical
* The trim ring on the top of the donut needs to be exactly the same size as the trim ring on the bottom of the torso, or this will look bad. Again the v2 trim ring is about 1/2" smaller in diameter than the old club standard donuts.
* This is not much of an issue because most people buy the torso and donut as a set and I offer the v2 donut.

RADAR SECTION - Not as critical
* Yes, not as critical, but you probably would want a v2 sized radar. Because where the collar mates with the radrar is not a sharp edge, there is some ley-way here.
* Greg Logue currently sells a laser cut acrylic radar, and Fred's fiberglass radar is also v2 sized.

NEON BACKPLATE - Least critical
* Because the overall dimensions of the v2 are slightly smaller, the old club standard Neon backplates may not fit as well as it could, but it could still be made to work.
* I am working with David Huber on a new v2 Neon backplate which should be available soon.

Now to answer your question... The v2 torso will definitely not look funny with the treadsections and bubbles of old because the dimensions of those parts has been well established and is very accurate. If anything, it should look better, but I doubt very many people could even tell the difference looking at the two side by side. In fact at Robocon 2013, my robot (old club standard torso) was setup close to Mike Joyce's Replica B9 with its v2 sized torso. You really couldn't tell the difference. Where the size differences come into play is where certain parts meet. If they are mis-sized with each other, that is where you will notice something looking funny.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions.

Thanks,

Craig




At 07:28 PM 9/28/2015, you wrote:
 


Indeed. I'd like to know just how much smaller the V2 is in comparison to the others that are no longer available. Wondering if tread sections & bubbles that are currently sold would look odd with the new torso.