Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

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Gary Smith
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 5:10 pm

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by Gary Smith » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:49 pm

'Solar is not for the timid, nor those with little money.  There may not be anything wrong with the larger of the two panels you removed, but the small square one I commonly call a roof decoration.  It does very little, with an output of less than 1 amp/hour for 4-6 hours on good sunny days, and will not keep up with the phantom loads.  The larger panel is likely capable of between 40 and 80 watts (giving around 4 amps/hour.  Neither of these require any kind of charge controller, as their output is so small.  Going to more capable panels, beyond 100 watts total (panels are rated by wattage) you will need some kind of solar charge controller.  My charge controller was over $400, but I have close to 600 watts of solar panels on the roof, connected in series, with output of 72 volts that need to be controlled to an output voltage suitable for my 12v battery bank.  I have a friend with 1,300 watts of solar panels and actually removed his roof A/C, generator, propane tank, and air conditioner, cooks, and heat, and refrigerates off the solar power.  He happens to be somewhat unique in his approach, but also lives in a house that is totally off-grid in NM when not using his RV.  He has gone to an extreme. 

What you may or may not need in the realm of solar is only dependent on how you intend to use your new Conny.  If it sits unused most of the year, as many RVs do, but can leave your coach connected to shore power when not in use, you may not need any solar.  I suggest you clean it up to your satisfaction, fixing things that are needed but not working, first.  At some point you need to start using it and becoming familiar with how things work.  Don't make too many changes until you understand what you have and how it works.  Don't worry about solar until you decide you prefer to sit in some remote place without any utilities at all for weeks at a time.  If that isn't your thing, you can re-install the larger panel you removed (after verifying that the panel is still good). 

Gary
'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 6:15 PM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Thanks Jim! I’m slowing learning this beast, steep learning curve especially since I’ve never owned an RV. One additional question maybe you could answer. I coated the entire roof, the first thing I did. Tore out old satellite and tv antenna and such, also two solar panels. One probably 12”by12”, another larger panel. Both had failed. Did they trickle charge the batteries? If so, I would guess the smaller one charged the chassis batteries, and the larger the house batteries? In replacing these, anything I should be concerned about size and output wise?

Robert
‘94 Continental 8.3 Cummins/Allison

--
Gary Smith
ImageImage '

TD
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:01 am

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by TD » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:16 pm

'Gary,

What brand and model is your charge controller?

Heating with solar electric??? Your friend must have one heck of a battery bank, unless he has something like Hurricane Heat.

A modest system, if self installed, is not that expensive. Now going back ten plus years ago, a solar setup was really expensive and much less power to boot. Panel technology has come a long way, and at the same time the cost has gone down a lot too, very unusual in this day and age of prices sky rocketing on everything.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd.
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Gary Smith trekker01@... [Safarifriends] wrote:


Solar is not for the timid, nor those with little money.  There may not be anything wrong with the larger of the two panels you removed, but the small square one I commonly call a roof decoration.  It does very little, with an output of less than 1 amp/hour for 4-6 hours on good sunny days, and will not keep up with the phantom loads.  The larger panel is likely capable of between 40 and 80 watts (giving around 4 amps/hour.  Neither of these require any kind of charge controller, as their output is so small.  Going to more capable panels, beyond 100 watts total (panels are rated by wattage) you will need some kind of solar charge controller.  My charge controller was over $400, but I have close to 600 watts of solar panels on the roof, connected in series, with output of 72 volts that need to be controlled to an output voltage suitable for my 12v battery bank.  I have a friend with 1,300 watts of solar panels and actually removed his roof A/C, generator, propane tank, and air conditioner, cooks, and heat, and refrigerates off the solar power.  He happens to be somewhat unique in his approach, but also lives in a house that is totally off-grid in NM when not using his RV.  He has gone to an extreme. 

What you may or may not need in the realm of solar is only dependent on how you intend to use your new Conny.  If it sits unused most of the year, as many RVs do, but can leave your coach connected to shore power when not in use, you may not need any solar.  I suggest you clean it up to your satisfaction, fixing things that are needed but not working, first.  At some point you need to start using it and becoming familiar with how things work.  Don't make too many changes until you understand what you have and how it works.  Don't worry about solar until you decide you prefer to sit in some remote place without any utilities at all for weeks at a time.  If that isn't your thing, you can re-install the larger panel you removed (after verifying that the panel is still good). 

Gary
'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 6:15 PM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Thanks Jim! I’m slowing learning this beast, steep learning curve especially since I’ve never owned an RV. One additional question maybe you could answer. I coated the entire roof, the first thing I did. Tore out old satellite and tv antenna and such, also two solar panels. One probably 12”by12”, another larger panel. Both had failed. Did they trickle charge the batteries? If so, I would guess the smaller one charged the chassis batteries, and the larger the house batteries? In replacing these, anything I should be concerned about size and output wise?

Robert
‘94 Continental 8.3 Cummins/Allison

--
Gary Smith
ImageImage


'

Gary Smith
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 5:10 pm

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by Gary Smith » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:41 pm

'I have a modestly large array.  Using 60 cell panels designed for residential applications.  The controller is a MidNite Solar Kid.  Any additional panels (wattage) and this controller would need to be replaced.  The battery cabling in my Sahara and the cable to the inverter were marginal to the original build, and are being replaced with larger cable next week.

Gary
'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:16 PM, TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Gary,

What brand and model is your charge controller?

Heating with solar electric??? Your friend must have one heck of a battery bank, unless he has something like Hurricane Heat.

A modest system, if self installed, is not that expensive. Now going back ten plus years ago, a solar setup was really expensive and much less power to boot. Panel technology has come a long way, and at the same time the cost has gone down a lot too, very unusual in this day and age of prices sky rocketing on everything.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Gary Smith trekker01@... [Safarifriends] wrote:


Solar is not for the timid, nor those with little money.  There may not be anything wrong with the larger of the two panels you removed, but the small square one I commonly call a roof decoration.  It does very little, with an output of less than 1 amp/hour for 4-6 hours on good sunny days, and will not keep up with the phantom loads.  The larger panel is likely capable of between 40 and 80 watts (giving around 4 amps/hour.  Neither of these require any kind of charge controller, as their output is so small.  Going to more capable panels, beyond 100 watts total (panels are rated by wattage) you will need some kind of solar charge controller.  My charge controller was over $400, but I have close to 600 watts of solar panels on the roof, connected in series, with output of 72 volts that need to be controlled to an output voltage suitable for my 12v battery bank.  I have a friend with 1,300 watts of solar panels and actually removed his roof A/C, generator, propane tank, and air conditioner, cooks, and heat, and refrigerates off the solar power.  He happens to be somewhat unique in his approach, but also lives in a house that is totally off-grid in NM when not using his RV.  He has gone to an extreme. 

What you may or may not need in the realm of solar is only dependent on how you intend to use your new Conny.  If it sits unused most of the year, as many RVs do, but can leave your coach connected to shore power when not in use, you may not need any solar.  I suggest you clean it up to your satisfaction, fixing things that are needed but not working, first.  At some point you need to start using it and becoming familiar with how things work.  Don't make too many changes until you understand what you have and how it works.  Don't worry about solar until you decide you prefer to sit in some remote place without any utilities at all for weeks at a time.  If that isn't your thing, you can re-install the larger panel you removed (after verifying that the panel is still good). 

Gary
'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 6:15 PM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Thanks Jim! I’m slowing learning this beast, steep learning curve especially since I’ve never owned an RV. One additional question maybe you could answer. I coated the entire roof, the first thing I did. Tore out old satellite and tv antenna and such, also two solar panels. One probably 12”by12”, another larger panel. Both had failed. Did they trickle charge the batteries? If so, I would guess the smaller one charged the chassis batteries, and the larger the house batteries? In replacing these, anything I should be concerned about size and output wise?

Robert
‘94 Continental 8.3 Cummins/Allison

--
Gary Smith
ImageImage






--
Gary Smith
ImageImage '

robertfury@gmail.com
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:53 pm

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by robertfury@gmail.com » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:43 pm

'Thanks Gary! I would like to run some solar to 1) keep chassis batteries up and 2) run some lighting as I’ve changed all interior lights to LED. I will be living in the “Conny” full time and will be doing some boondocking. The two different panels have two different wire sizes, so I was guessing that one charged Chassis and one House? Otherwise I couldn’t think of reason to have two panels, especially since one is so small and it’s output so little as you’ve stated. There is a small solar controller installed on the firewall, and it appears to be stock.'

Gary Smith
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 5:10 pm

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by Gary Smith » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:01 pm

'The small "controller" may well be a small "isolater" instead.  The incoming positive wire from the larger panel would have gone to the center terminal, and then two wires off the outer terminals feed the two two battery banks?  Just a guess on my part.

Gary
'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 9:43 PM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Thanks Gary! I would like to run some solar to 1) keep chassis batteries up and 2) run some lighting as I’ve changed all interior lights to LED. I will be living in the “Conny” full time and will be doing some boondocking. The two different panels have two different wire sizes, so I was guessing that one charged Chassis and one House? Otherwise I couldn’t think of reason to have two panels, especially since one is so small and it’s output so little as you’ve stated. There is a small solar controller installed on the firewall, and it appears to be stock.

--
Gary Smith
ImageImage '

TD
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:01 am

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by TD » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:28 pm

'
Robert,

Does your controller by any chance look like this one???
These often came originally on many Safaris. They are very basic but durable. These units have between 4 to 16 amps capability, depending on the model you have. You could easily mount one or two Renology 100W 12volt panels, one for each battery bank, or if you larger panel that you removed, still produces power, you could use that one for the chassis batteries and the 100W panel for the house batteries.

https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-12-volt-polycrystalline-solar-panel/#tab_prd-specs   (these panels in particular would fit your roof layout really well)

If you will be boondocking often, I would suggest to read (and take notes) Handy Bob Solar blog. He has boondocked off grid for close to 15 years and knows his stuff. As you will see in his blog, he suggests to get a good battery amp meter/monitor, like a Trimetric 2030RV. Install that first and monitor your usage and needs, then when you are ready, you can build a system that fits your needs. I have a 960W system that fellow Safarifriends member Bill Edwards installed, per Handy Bob's guidelines. The system works exceptionally well, you just can't beat silent power out in the wilderness! My setup is on the large side, because I have high power usage, including a mobility scooter that gets charged overnight. If you decide to go solar and can't do it yourself, I would suggest sending Bill a PM or email him directly, he could install a system for you for less money then these "professional" outfits do. He did a great job on mine and is a wonderful guy to deal with, and has a great sense of humor to boot!

Also, while you are remodeling, don't assume anything when it comes to electrical wiring, especially on the 120V side. A lot of the outlets and circuit runs are daisy changed throughout the coach, and if you rip stuff apart w/o tracing and marking everything, you can end up with quite a headache on your hands.
Image

If you can, send us some pictures of your coach and your remodel progress...

BTW, what region of the country are you located in?

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd.
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 9:43 PM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
Thanks Gary!  I would like to run some solar to 1) keep chassis batteries up and 2) run some lighting as I’ve changed all interior lights to LED.  I will be living in the “Conny” full time and will be doing some boondocking.  The two different panels have two different wire sizes, so I was guessing that one charged Chassis and one House?  Otherwise I couldn’t think of reason to have two panels, especially since one is so small and it’s output so little as you’ve stated.  There is a small solar controller installed on the firewall, and it appears to be stock.

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robertfury@gmail.com
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Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by robertfury@gmail.com » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:06 am

'That the one John! So if I replaced both the small and large stock solar panels with one 100 watt panel each it would run through this controller? And one would power chassis and one house? I’m not looking to run much, just keep chassis batteries charged, and run some led lighting when boondocking.

Haven’t changed any of the 120v runs, just worked with the existing lighting receptacle locations. I flipped houses for ten years, but let me tell you remodeling an RV is a lot of work per square footage. When all is done, every surface will be new in some way. Will send off some pics. Thanks again!'

robertfury@gmail.com
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:53 pm

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by robertfury@gmail.com » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:25 am

'I’m located in Washington state, but moving south as soon as remodel is done. Need more sun!

Robert
1994 Safari Continental 8.3 Cummins/Allison'

TD
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:01 am

Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by TD » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:30 am

'Robert,


The controller you have will probably handle one 100W panel that would charge the house batteries. If you want another 100W panel for the chassis batteries, then you will need to buy another controller like that one, or better yet, use the the controller you have now on the chassis batteries and buy a MorningStar SunSaver 10 or 20 amp controller for the house bank. It costs about $40 and will do a better job for you house batteries. The SunSaver also has temperature compensating charge and an automatic monthly equalize charge that will help keep your house bank in good shape. I would still recommend getting a Trimetric, as it will tell you exactly how much you took out and but back into your batteries, among many other great options. If you want to spend a little extra, you can get a charge controller from Bogart Engineering (the same company who makes the Trimetric). They work together adding a very effecting 4th charging dimension that helps top off the batteries when there is limited solar hours, especially in the winter time. I have the setup from Bogart Engineering, and it has surprisingly exceeded my expectations.

BTW, as for boondocking, you will have additional energy draw besides LED lights, the refrigerator and water pump are two examples. The refrigerator still requires some power, even when switched to propane. If you need to occasionally use the furnace that will draw about 10amps when it's running.

Well, if you have flipped houses in the past, you have an edge already on this rv stuff, it's just fitted into a tighter package. ;)

 John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd. 
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 3:06 AM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
That the one John!  So if I replaced both the small and large stock solar panels with one 100 watt panel each it would run through this controller?  And one would power chassis and one house?  I’m not looking to run much, just keep chassis batteries charged, and run some led lighting when boondocking.

Haven’t changed any of the 120v runs, just worked with the existing lighting receptacle locations.  I flipped houses for ten years, but let me tell you remodeling an RV is a lot of work per square footage.  When all is done, every surface will be new in some way.  Will send off some pics.  Thanks again!

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TD
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Re: New file uploaded to Safarifriends

Post by TD » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:36 am

'Robert,

I'm on the opposite end (NY), I know that one of the members here is also from WA, and he just finished remodeling his coach and escaped south just in time as the snow started flying.

When do you estimate to be done, or at least hoping to be?

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd.
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 3:25 AM, robertfury@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
I’m located in Washington state, but moving south as soon as remodel is done.  Need more sun!

Robert
1994 Safari Continental 8.3 Cummins/Allison

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